Rain-The-Face

[grahamew]

Unfortunately, Ms Custer doesn't go on to say: "At that point Mr. Goff knocked at the door and said he was ready to take Rain's photograph."

[shan]

Grahamew,

thanks for that blow up of the group photo including Low Dog and Gall amongst others. I've been tying to find a useable image that might help with a painting I want to make since I first saw it, but it was always too small to blow up. How did you do it, and do you have any suggestions as to how to blow it up even further with even better resolution?

That aside, it raises a couple of interesting questions. The first being why were these particular men chosen? Was it because they just happened to be there ~~ perhaps Sitting Bull was elsewhere at the time and couldn't be included ~ or did the photographer pick these men out because of their reputations?

Of course Rain was already famous, or should that be notorious, for supposedly cutting out, and even eating the heart of Tom Custer. I don't think for one moment that he did it,in fact I don't suppose he even understood the concept, but all the same, I think the accusation eventually came to haunt him, even to the extent that he is said to have denied that he was even at the battle, let alone do what he'd been accused of.

As for the others, according to De Cost Smith, Low Dog had a reputation as a "Bad Indian," a trouble maker and a dangerous man, so one can easily imagine why the photographer might have wanted to include him, and I suspect that much the same went for Gall. The man sitting between Low Dog and Gall was called Crawler I believe. Now I know little or nothing about this man, and the same applies to the other man, an older man whose name now escapes me. Can anyone help fill in the gaps?

Apart from that, I wonder whether we can trust the identification of the men who joined them in a second photograph. For instance, the man labeled Fool bear, number 7, is yet another famous man whose name momentarily fails me, again, can anyone help? but apart from recognising his face, if you look carefully, you can see that he clutches that very famous three knifed war club he was photographed with elsewhere.

Lastly, in the final image ~~ was it a final image, for it prompts the question which order were they taken in, and are there any more? We have a collection of officers, plus some ladies who I presume to be their wives, oh, and that cheeky little boy lying in front. Again, were these men important enough to have been invited to take part, or are they merely passing tourists who came to look at these wild Indians?

Shan

[grahamew]

I think some of the identification has been done after the fact, possibly based on a cursory glance at other photos. For example, someone familiar with the Barry photo of Crow King shortly after his surrender has glanced at this, possibly thinking it's a surrender photo, and mistaken Low Dog for Crow King because of the army jacket. I suspect it's the same with Louis Sitting Bull (or whoever that photo is...)
 
Oh look, he's wearing the same vest. Except he's not - and this style was popular among the Lakota. I suspect the Barry photo probably dates from a couple of years after the Haynes one. Moreover, doesn't the pectoral cross signify some kind of status, like head warrior, which Louie would not have been? (see Ephriam on this page: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/2322/lakota-leadership-symbols?page=1). I don't think this is the same man.

Then we have this man:

Surely this is Spotted Eagle and not Fool Bear/

The only image I have of a Fool Bear who was Fort Randall and Standing Rock is this, taken 20 or so years later:


I have seen a different set of i.d.s - one that mistakes Crawler for someone else.

I suspect that you're right about Rain's presence in the front row being due to his post LBH fame and I wonder about the absence of Crow King.

When was it taken? I've seen it passed off as a surrender photo, but it's clearly not taken in the winter and they didn't all surrender together. Maybe it was when they went to or arrived at Fort Yates, with Running Antelope doing the meet and greet. He and Rain seem to have acquired new hats for the occasion and is that the same with the jackets worn by Running Antelope and Gall? If that's the case, this would have been at least June 1881, when Rain and Spotted Eagle arrived at Standing Rock from Ft Keogh via steamer. Gall, Crow King and Fool's Heart had arrived the previous month. It can't have been prior to this because one group was at Buford and the other at Keogh.

Here's another set of i.d.s:


This is Hump taken in 1879/80 while a scout at Fort Keogh:



Again: I don't see him in that group photo.


I've also seen it suggested that the photo dates from 1883. This (a Lakota council) supposedly dates from that year too:



As Californian has pointed out, however, he's seen this labelled  "Surrender of Sitting Bull' Band in 1879," though, of course, the date is incorrect...

Here's another identification of the same group:

"Group photograph of Dakota Indians at Fort Buford (DT) --Standing Left to Right: 1. Brugier, 2. Louis Sitting Bull, 3. Al Parkhurst, 4. Chatka Agard, 5. Chase Walking, 6. Yellow Hawk, 7. Fool Bear, 8. Brave Thunder. Sitting Left to Right: 1. Phillip Wells, 2. Chief Tall, 3. Crawler, 4. Crow King, 5. Running Antelope, 6. Rain-in-the-Face." Tall = Gall
statemuseum.nd.gov/database/photobook/index.php?content=photobook-itemdetails&ID=PH_I_88752&CollectionNmbr=E&PBID=100560

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rain and Spotted Eagle had been at Fort Keogh (with Big Road, another obvious absentee from the photo), not at Buford with Gall, Low Dog and the absent Crow King

One more - referring to the photo with the child in it, but the seating arrangement remains the same: "Hump, Rain-in-the-Face, Gall, Low Dog, Running Antelope, Spotted Eagle are seated."
statemuseum.nd.gov/database/photobook/index.php?content=photobook-itemdetails&ID=PH_I_147379&CollectionNmbr=00119&PBID=86658

[shan]

Grahamew,

thanks for the reply. Of course, the men were Spotted Eagle and Running Antelope, I should have remembered. It's interesting that Spotted Eagle was allowed to keep and wander around with such a dangerous looking weapon, I mean one would have imagined that when the Indians were disarmed, items like that, and indeed the tomahawk that Low Dog sports would have been thought almost as dangerous as leaving them in possession of their rifles. Do you have any idea why Running Antelope was thought worthy of being included? From my remembrance, he was an old time chief, but had little or nothing to do with the Custer fight.

With regards to the man labeled as Louis Sitting Bull, I couldn't agree more, whoever he is, he's not that man, indeed looking a little closer at the close up you provided, I notice that he wears his forelock combed up in the Crow or Nez Pierce manner, its not a major thing, but it seems a little unusual given the company he is in.

With reference to the last item you posted,

" One more - referring to the photo with the child in it, but the seating arrangement remains the same: "Hump, Rain-in-the-Face, Gall, Low Dog, Running Antelope, Spotted Eagle are seated."
statemuseum.nd.gov/database/photobook/index.php?content=photobook item details&ID=PH_I_147379
&CollectionNmbr=00119&PBID=86658 "

I went in and took a look at the image, but there is no sign of Hump or Spotted Eagle being seated, so are they referring to a photograph we've never seen?

Shan

[grahamew]

I think it's just a case of misidentification. Does make me wonder if Haynes took more photos of the event, though...

[cinye80]

Rain in the face / Three bladed war club:
For those interested in one example of the use of the three bladed club see:
The FlagPole Affair at Red Cloud Agency by Randy Kane.
Nebraska History, volume 97/ #3 / Fall 2016.
Sitting Bull (the Ogalala) Shirt Wearer of the Payabya, head Soldier of the band beat back rioters using his three bladed club.

[grahamew]

From: sddigitalarchives.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/photos/id/39116/rec/966


Native American Children and Woman with Rain-In-The-Face

[nicolas (carlo)]

Wow Grahame, that second one is brilliant. Not often do we see such a relaxed pose, such a candid shot. Do you know the year?
Thanks for sharing!

[grahamew]

I'm not sure. It's a tough one. The second photo wasn't even identified as him. I would have to guess late 80s/early 90s. There are a couple of other photos of Indian women and girls on these steps; maybe one or more are members of his family. I think the 'woman' in the first one may just be an older female student

[Dietmar]

Hi guys,

are we sure this is Rain-in-the-Face? Frankly, I don´t think so.

I´ll come up with a comparison later today...

[Dietmar]

I know, the archive labeled him Rain-in-the-Face, but I believe he´s the younger Spotted Elk (Richard/Dick Spotted Elk):

[wolfgang]

Wow, I say it again, you have good eyes.

[nicolas (carlo)]

Good catch Dietmar.
Still really like the picture though!

[grahamew]

EXcellent. It certainly is.