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Post by nicolas (carlo) on Apr 12, 2020 6:10:11 GMT -5
Never saw that one, very interesting! It's in Cyrus Townsend Brady's Indian Fights and Fighters. Hmmm, must be old age creeping up on me... should have said: "I totally don't remember seeing that one, thanks for reminding me"  |
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Post by grahamew on Apr 12, 2020 6:36:52 GMT -5
It's in Cyrus Townsend Brady's Indian Fights and Fighters. Hmmm, must be old age creeping up on me... should have said: "I totally don't remember seeing that one, thanks for reminding me" I know what you mean... |
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Post by gregor on Apr 12, 2020 14:23:32 GMT -5
The man in the middle looks like Blackfoot chief Two Guns White Calf. |
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Post by Dietmar on Apr 12, 2020 15:50:08 GMT -5
I can see a resemblance, Gregor. In the meantime, here´s a photo by Huffmann labeled "Rain-in-the-Face at home": collections.si.edu/search/detail/edanmdm:siris_arc_88447Another copy is at Montana Historical Society: However, I cannot see Rain-in-the-Face in the picture. Maybe these are the tents of his family? |
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Post by grahamew on Apr 13, 2020 7:16:50 GMT -5
It does look like a kid, doesn't it? This is a shirt supposedly owned by Rain in the Face and, the catalogue says, "Fully documented and collected directly from "Rain in the Face" by US Agent James McLaughlin, on the Standing Rock reservation."   issuu.com/dreamedia/docs/catalog_148_comancheria/6It was in a Hendershott auction and the publicity was accompanied by these:   I've adjusted this to make it easier to read   As you can see - and which is pointed out in the original documentation - the photo doesn't show McLaughlin but Major Israel McCreight (Standing Hawk), friend of Flying Hawk. The original documentation also implies it was given by Flying Hawk to McCreight and that Flying Hawk said it belonged to Rain in the Face (who does seem to have been one of many Lakota visitors to McCreight's home, The Wigwam, in Dubois, Pennsylvania and his 'war coat' was in McCeight's collection, according to Firewater and Forked Tongues). The rest of the details of its provenance aren't on the site, unfortunately. These were also part of McCreight's collection - note the bonnet belonging to Rain in the Face...  |
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Post by grahamew on Jul 21, 2020 13:31:43 GMT -5
This is indeed an intriguing picture. I got this list of Sioux attending the World´s Fair in 1893: Sioux - Many arrived June 30 in Roddy´s group of sixty-one: Black Bull – Sitting Bull´s cabin Black Tomahawk – From Northern Cheyenne on Missouri River [Cheyenne River?] Chasing Fly - Sitting Bull´s cabin Cotton Wood - Sitting Bull´s cabin Curly – Note: There was also a Curley identified as Crow Charles Eastman – Wrote paper on “Sioux Mythology” for international Folk-lore Congress, July 18 Flat Iron – Attended opening ceremonies Grey Eagle - Sitting Bull´s cabin Mary Hairy-Chin – Midway Village Kills Him Twice Lone Dog – Midway village Prairie Chicken - Sitting Bull´s cabin Pretty Face (Sitting Bull´s niece) - Sitting Bull´s cabin, interpreter and artisan Pretty Face´s husband - Sitting Bull´s cabin. Note: May be the one of the men listed in this section. Rain-in-the-Face – On display in Sitting Bull´s cabin “Red Cloud” – Young Native man claiming to be “the famous Sioux of Western notoriety” in Midway village War Bonnet - Sitting Bull´s cabin ["Unfair Labor?: American Indians and the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago" by David R. M. Beck (Univ. of Nebraska Press), page 210/211 According to this list, Mary Hairy Chin was Sitting Bull´s niece and the interpreter. Note that Curly was Curly Head, an Arikara. I think that War Bonnet is the man standing 6th from left (wearing a long breast-plate). Like Rain-in-the-Face, Pretty Face, Curly Head and others, he was photographed by George F. Spencer that year (1893) in Chicago. As Jack Red Cloud was also photographed by Spencer, perhaps he could be the one of "Western notoriety", but this is just a tentative theory. He was indeed at the fair as part of the 1893 Buffalo Bill Show performer contingent, but this "Red Cloud" at 'Midway village' could easily be another person. I just came across this, who, unless I'm mistaken, is the man standing to the left (our left) of Rain in the Face in the cabin photo posted earlier in the thread:  |
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 21, 2020 14:50:08 GMT -5
Wonderful find, Grahame. I´m not so sure that he is in the cabin photo, however a Curly is in the 1893 list apart from Curley Head (a Crow).
Where did you find the picture... and are there more?
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Post by grahamew on Jul 22, 2020 3:11:51 GMT -5
In an auction lot along with pictures of his Crow namesake. No more, unfortunately.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 22, 2020 3:28:26 GMT -5
Sorry, I have to correct myself... Curley Head was Arikara, not Crow.
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Post by grahamew on Jul 22, 2020 5:07:53 GMT -5
Wonderful find, Grahame. I´m not so sure that he is in the cabin photo, however a Curly is in the 1893 list apart from Curley Head ( a Crow). Where did you find the picture... and are there more? Looking at the pictures again, you're right. This man's lips are fuller than the man in the cabin photo. |
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Post by Californian on Jan 8, 2021 17:38:38 GMT -5
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Post by grahamew on Jun 6, 2021 12:20:54 GMT -5
Fiske portrait, currently on ebay:  |
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Post by grahamew on Aug 9, 2021 7:42:14 GMT -5
At Fort Yates, by Barry. I think this has to be at least 1886 and possibly later. Note he is dressed similarly (though not the same) to the other Barry photo of him mounted:    Fiske again. Notice he's kneeling on the chair to take the weight off his injured leg.  Fiske again |
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Post by grahamew on Aug 10, 2021 6:06:03 GMT -5
click onto images to enlargeView Attachment View Attachmentdear all - I have always been intrigued at the Rain-in-Face portrait attributed to Orlando Scott Goff and I believe it is indeed Goff, not Haynes, that took the image. The backdrop and pose is somewhat similar to the more famous Sitting Bull portrait dated 31st July 1881. I have not been able to determine a conclusive date, there is conflicting information out there ranging from 1874 to the 1880's - very clearly it it a very young Rain-in-the-Face before he started to fill in physically due to weight gain. In 1982 a limited edition of re-prints were made off the original glass negative (please see below), but I was not able to determine where the actual original glass negative is kept. Does anyone know? Your second image shows a fairly young Rain-in-the-Face as well, is L.A. Huffman really the photographer? I have seen this image on L.A. Huffman stock, but it would state "published by" and not "copyright by" - and as was typical in the day I have seen the very same image published by other photographers, even D.F. Barry if I am not mistaken. Any insights pertaining to the whereabouts of the original glass negative of the Orlando Scott image would be gratefully appreciated. ![]()  So... while I'm on the subject... 1. This is going to muddy the water further, of course... 2. I don't agree this is the same background used in Goff's 1881 photo as Sitting Bull. Similar, but not the same. 3. However, it IS the same background used in the photo of Joseph in the dark shirt. 4. I do think he looks younger and leaner than in the Huffman photo. Not really based on any real evidence, I know, and it could still have been taken early on his return from Canada - except Goff wasn't in the vicinity at the time AND bear in mind Rain had been badly injured in Canada and wasn't as able to get around on foot and was possibly not as trim. a) This is a photo taken at Ft Lincoln by Goff. There is no date, but the backdrop is the same as used for the Rain photo:  (Marie) Louise Van Solen - half-Lakota and half-French daughter of Eagle Woman (Matilda Galpin) and one of the first schoolteachers on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation statemuseum.nd.gov/database/photobook/index.php?content=photobook-itemdetails&ID=PH_I_148249&CollectionNmbr=00192&PBID=87636(https://www.history.nd.gov/archives/manuscripts/inventory/00192.html) Goff was at Ft Lincoln from 1874 but had established a business in Bismarck in 1877 - though, geographically, they are very close neighbours and he travelled. There's no reason why either Goff or van Solen couldn't have crossed the Missouri, I suppose. The potential (but considerable) spanner in the works here is that Louise was not Van Solen until 1879, when she married George L. Van Solen (sawmill-engineer at Fort Yates in 1879); previously, she had been the wife of Charles DeGrey (Interpreter at Cheyenne River Agency, 1871-1872) who died June 1877. Joseph and his band were taken to Bismarck after surrendering in 1877, so this is where Goff photographed him. It would be nice, of couse, to find other Nez Perce images taken with this backdrop... Is it that odd for the same backdrop to be used - on and off - over a three year period? Probably not, so this doesn't rule out the idea that the photo posted by Californian dates from 1874. The photo of Van Solen is the only other use of the backdrop I've seen. Maybe I need to do more research or maybe I need to get out more! 2. In Boots and Saddles, Eizabeth Custer refers to Rain's captivity and points out that his family and friends were afraid he was to be sent to Washington for a trial so his brother, "Iron Horse" (Iron Horn) places a 'peace medal' around his neck, as if to curry favour with the authorities: "Then finding that there was a prospect of Rain-in-the-Face having his trial in Washington, he took off the medal that had been given to his father by a former president, whose likeness was in the medallion, and placed it over the neck of his brother, that it might be a silent argument in his favor when he confronted the "Great Father." I wonder if this was Iron Horn's own medal. Wouldn't he have been given one during his trip to Washington in 1872? I don't see it in any of the other early (i.e. 1880-1) views of Rain. It's hard to make out who the figure on Rain's medal is. Could be Grant, I suppose...   For good measure, here is a heavier looking Rain holding the earlier photo, from a group image by Haynes, that I suspect is from Spring 1881 at the earliest and possibly as late as 83. Clearly a grand occasion, perhaps the surrendered bands moving to Fort Yates? Here's the less common photo from the three I've seen of that event:    As far as the Huffman photo of Rain in the bonnet (actually two almost identical photos) is concerned, it seems it was taken in February 1880, which is only a few months after he took the photos of the camp - Spotted Eagle's - near the freight road - that Rain was staying in.  I hope this has muddied the waters in at least an interesting fashion! |
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Post by Californian on Aug 10, 2021 12:14:11 GMT -5
thank you Grahame for your elaborations on the subject of the Rain-in-the-Face photographs and it is much appreciated. On your comment pertaining to the presidential medal that Rain is wearing in the purported 1874 image by Goff - it is indeed the one with Ulysses S. Grant
click onto image to enlarge
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