dingy
New Member
Posts: 26
|
Post by dingy on Mar 3, 2013 12:33:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ftpeckpabaksa on Mar 20, 2013 10:29:28 GMT -5
Hello. Its interesting the read about White Bull. I was wondering though. ...this thread is confusing. The question i have is, how many children and grandchildren did White Bull have? I mean its really unclear on this thread to make sense of that. Like how many times he himself was married and his children. Just curious
|
|
|
Post by ladonna on Mar 20, 2013 13:35:22 GMT -5
I am unsure of how many grandchildren he had but i do know from his own interviews with Vestal he said he had 19 wives, and 23 children that are recorded, we have heard there was more children but have not found the information yet so as far and grandchildren they has to be a whole lot. I know that his Ute wife return to Colorado with two children.
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 15:27:44 GMT -5
hi Diane this is quite a bit belated on my part - I happen to own an original print of this full length photograph taken in 1926 by Earl Alonzo Brininstool, the historian and author from Los Angeles (the photograph bears Brininstool's personal rubber stamp mark on the back) - thus that photo was not taken by G. J. McMurphy
click onto the image to enlarge
I got this photograph from Andy Smith of Santa Fe (Andrew Smith Gallery) several years ago, along with other images by E.A. Brininstool. From Charlie: "A new interesting image of the great White Bull taken in 1926 by G.J. McMurry:"
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 15:34:39 GMT -5
and here is one - this one I would date to around the same time, late 1920's/early 1930's (not by Brininstool, don't know the photographer)
click onto image to enlarge
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 15:37:39 GMT -5
is there any known and positively identified photograph of [Joseph] White Bull of the Miniconjou when younger, i.e. 1880's to 1900 ?
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 18:19:03 GMT -5
here is a link to White Bull's autobiography (color PDF, 193.2 MB) - University of North Dakota Library - manuscript collection, dated August 1931. commons.und.edu/unique-manuscript/1/Description
The White Bull Manuscript, as it is commonly known, was commissioned by Usher Burdick in 1931. Burdick encouraged White Bull to chronicle his life. In a black bound business ledger, White Bull recorded the events of his life in his native Dakota language. The ledger measures 14.75 x 10.5 inches and contains writings and/or pictographs on a total of 51 pages. The pictographs are rendered in ink, lead pencil and colored crayon, with explanatory text in Dakota. Buffalo and bear hunts, horse raiding exploits, instances of "counting coup," and battles and skirmishes are among the subjects. White Bull also included a typical Teton winter count, or calendrical history. No pictographs were created for the winter count. In the manuscript, White Bull claims to be the warrior who killed Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer at the Battle of the Little Bighorn on June 26, 1876. This battle was a decisive victory for the Native Americans and a total defeat for the U.S. Army. The battle has remained the subject of historical controversy and debate ever since. An English translation of the manuscript was published with the title The Warrior Who Killed Custer: The Personal Narrative of Chief Joseph White Bull. Translated by James Howard, this book was published by the University of Nebraska Press in 1968.
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 18:23:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 18:37:02 GMT -5
this image sold at Cowan's Auctions on June 22nd, 2011 for $ 1080, described as - www.cowanauctions.com/lot/f-jay-haynes-cabinet-photograph-of-chief-white-bull-93837"A hand-colored portrait of Sioux Chief White Bull, with F. Jay Haynes St. Paul, MN backmark. joseph White Bull (1849-1947) was Sitting Bull's nephew. He was present at Little Big Horn and is reputed to have killed Custer. As with all oral histories, White Bull on other occasions claimed only to have struggled with Custer. Condition: Light soiling to photograph; remnants of tape on verso of mount."but of course this by all appearance is a Crow, possibly of the name of White Bull but certainly not "the" White Bull, nephew of Sitting Bull. But sadly if something appears at an auction house description it is often perpetuated as "accurate" and quite obviously this is not the case here.
click onto image to enlarge
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 18:44:39 GMT -5
and here is another version (similar, same sitting) in the collection of North Dakota State University falsely attributed click onto image to enlargeclick onto image to enlarge
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Nov 27, 2020 18:51:33 GMT -5
White Bull at the 50th Anniversary of the Battle of the Little Big Horn June 25th, 1926, photograph by E. A. Brininstool [?] click onto image to enlarge
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Nov 28, 2020 7:36:15 GMT -5
Hi Californian, thanks for the very interesting link to the White Bull manuscript. I've never seen it before. Will compare the content with Vestal's "War Path" once. The following letter from Superintendant Spaulding (Cheyenne River) to Campbell / Vestal can be found in the Norman Campbell (aka Stanley Vestal) Correspondence Archive. After that, White Bull died on the Cheyenne River Agency. In this respect I assume that the "Pine Ridge White Bull" was a different person. If you go through some census lists as an example, you will often find a wide variety of "Bulls" in the lists. Neither Sitting Bull nor White Bull (not even Red Cloud) were rare names that only one person would listen to. Greetings from Germany, Gregor
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Nov 28, 2020 7:42:28 GMT -5
And another great pic of White Bull with his brother One Bull about 1930
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Nov 28, 2020 9:24:37 GMT -5
I compared the images in the White Bull - Burdick manuscript with the images in Vestal's "Warpath" (Bison Books, Version from 1984). This book contains 8 images from White Bull's Pictorial Autobiography. These "Warpath Pictures" are not identical to the Burdick pictures, although they depict the same events.
There must be several versions of White Bull's Pictorial Autobiography in this regard. According to the preface by Raymond J. DeMallie, Vestal met Whuite Bull in 1928, 1929, and 1932. During these times, White Bull told his story through his Pictorial Autobiography in a ledger book. Of this he made a copy of the Vestal.
Apparently, White Bull made a copy for Usher L. Burdick around 1931. This version was published in 1968 under the title "The Man who Killed Custer: The Personal Narrative of Chief Joseph White Bull". Raymond J. DeMallie then viewed Vestal's recordings of the White Bull interviews. There was no evidence there that White Bull ever declared that he killed Custer.
In the following post are 8 pics of Burdick's manuscript with captions from "Warpath".
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Nov 28, 2020 9:28:45 GMT -5
Pictures of the White Bull Autobiography by Usher Burdick in 1931 with captions from "Warpath" Warpath: August, 1865 – Gourd / Pumpkin Buttes. White Bull counts his first coup (a second coup upon an US Indian Scout) Warpath: December 21, 1866 near Fort Phil Kearney. He counts the first coup upon a soldier. The two bleeding wounds in his blanket indicate the holes made by bullets that knocked him off his horse. Warpath: Late Summer 1868, Mouth of Musselshell River. A battle with Crow over the sacred White Buffalo Hide bundle of the Crow. Warpath: 1870 Musselshell River, a fight with Flatheads. One of White Bull’s bravest deeds, a first coup. Warpath: 1873, Rosebud River. Fighting in trenches. White Bull saves the body of His-knife, a Slota. Warpath: June 17, 1876, Battle of the Rosebud. He lames the Shoshoni Indian scout and shoots his horse. Warpath: June 25, 1876. Custer’s Last Stand. White Bull drags a soldier from his horse, who fires in the air. Warpath: Oktober 15, 1876, Yellowstone River. Fight with Colonel E.S. Otis. White Bull circles towards the soldiers and is hit in his left arm Toksha, gregor
|
|