|
Post by lgarcia on Jan 8, 2014 13:07:48 GMT -5
LaDonna: Let me help you out in explaining religious and cultural items. When in Indian country it is expected that you bring a gift to someone you want to learn from. One guy here at Spirit Lake said to me- people bring me tobacco, I have lots of tobacco,I don't smoke. I need money or food or an expensive craft item. I remember years and years ago I had to pass up opportunities to interview elders. I had to feed my family and could not afford the interview at the time. The teacher looks you over and decides what he or she will give you.
Another example is when I taught college in New Town, ND. The college decided to have a quillwork class. The Hidatsa Women's Quillwork Society stopped the class. In questioning some of the members they told me that for a year they pray and sort quills; it takes years before they let them sew.
Once this stuff gets out on the world wide web then all these crystal rock and pretend pipe carriers learn this information. You must pay for all information. When you go to school - you pay for the class. Toksta ake do, LouieG
|
|
|
Post by ladonna on Jan 8, 2014 13:48:46 GMT -5
Thank you Louie
|
|
|
Post by emilylevine on Jan 8, 2014 17:33:06 GMT -5
Beautiful words, LaDonna. Thank you.
|
|
ceyawi33
New Member
The pic on profile is one of my sacred pieces, I am an artist I make many Items it is bear skull.
Posts: 17
|
Post by ceyawi33 on Sept 4, 2014 12:30:40 GMT -5
I have to agree with you ladonna, this is our most sacred ceremony. There is good reason why camera's are not allowed. There is a reason why most are in very secret places. Our most sacred leaders, our Holy men, warriors and supportive women and family's will agree with you on this one, as I do. Cheyaya Winyan
|
|
ceyawi33
New Member
The pic on profile is one of my sacred pieces, I am an artist I make many Items it is bear skull.
Posts: 17
|
Post by ceyawi33 on Sept 4, 2014 12:32:42 GMT -5
If we discuss this ceremony for history and family fine but pictures should not go into cyber space forever.
|
|
|
Post by witkola on Sept 16, 2015 19:57:24 GMT -5
This is interesting that someone (whom I assume is an enrolled member of another tribe) who is not an enrolled member of the Rosebud Sioux tribe could dictate what historical Rosebud Sioux tribal resources others -- such as myself, an enrolled member of the Rosebud Sioux tribe -- should have access to.
|
|
peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
|
Post by peter on Oct 4, 2017 18:10:39 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaking one of the last sun dance before the 1928 was in 1877 near Camp Robinson and Red Cloud Agency right?
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Oct 5, 2017 6:30:12 GMT -5
peter, the Oglala and Upper Brule continued holding annual, tribally-organized Sun Dances until 1883 when the US government imposed a ban on the ceremony. So ceremonies were held at the new Pine Ridge and Rosebud agencies 1879-1883.
|
|
peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
|
Post by peter on Oct 5, 2017 8:04:43 GMT -5
Thank you very much. I'm honored that you took your own time to reply to my question. Your book on Crazy Horse, in my opinion, by far is the best out there. I'm new on this forum and I was reading that photographing the Sun Dance is forbidden. You made a valid point about the Rosebud Sun Dance in 1928. It has nothing to do with disrespecting the Lakota culture. The Lakota people were the ones who invited the photographers that year. Anyway, in 1877 June 26 through June 29 there was the famous Sun Dance held at Crazy Horse camp near Red Cloud Agency and Camp Robinson. Even then the sun dance was photographed. I'm pretty sure that if Crazy Horse and the other Lakota leaders had a problem with it, the photographer/photographers who were there at the time, would been notified not to take pictures. Regards
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Oct 5, 2017 8:19:16 GMT -5
so far as I am aware there aren't photos of the 1877 Sun Dances at the agencies on White river. But I'm not a photo expert like Dietmar and grahamew and yrself. There was a bunch of photos taken at the 1882 Pine Ridge Sun Dance.
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Oct 5, 2017 8:34:36 GMT -5
Didn´t Jules Tavernier paint the 1877 Sun Dance?
I don´t primarily collect Sun Dance photos, but there are some old pictures by E. A. Fry of Creighton, Nebraska. His photo studio was established in 1874. The series of Sun Dance views he took looks very early.
William R. Cross also photographed a Sun Dance, I guess in the 1870s/80s.
|
|
peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
|
Post by peter on Oct 5, 2017 8:44:23 GMT -5
No expert what so ever, just a passion for it. There was a photographer for sure during the sun dance at Crazy Horse camp in June 1877 and he even recorded the event in his catalogue. I can not locate that picture yet, but there were numerous pictures taken that day according to eyewitnesses and the catalogue. This is an other story, but there goes away the myth and the theory that Crazy Horse was never in the vicinity of a photographer that summer. The photographer was at his camp and consequently near him for four days or so during the Sun Dance held in his camp, but by any means, I do not want to start the photograph controversy. I just wanted to point out that even back then the Sun Dance was photographed.
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Oct 5, 2017 10:20:22 GMT -5
Tavernier painted one of the 1874 Red Cloud Agency Sun Dances (there were two that year).
There were three Sun Dances summer of 1877, the dates as I reconstructed them are the Crazy Horse book. First was the Crazy Horse village ceremony, then one hosted by the Miniconjous and Sans Arcs near Spotted Tail Agency, and finally a huge ceremony held by both Red Cloud and Spotted Tail Agency peoples, near where the airstrip is today (west of Chadron).
I saw the reference to a "Sun Dancer" in the list of Hamilton photographs. Mmmm. I'm reminded of Short Bull's statement to Eleanor Hinman that he had seen a photo of Crazy Horse, where CH was on a horse. I'm not dogmatic that there can't be a photo of the great man, just that none we've so far seen can be him.
|
|
peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
|
Post by peter on Oct 5, 2017 11:11:02 GMT -5
Thanks, I'm writing from my daughter house, far from by home and I do not have your book handy right now. I remember the dates of the Crazy Horse sun dance, perhaps the one at Spotted Tail I think in the middle of July, but I do not remember the dates of the one held by Red Cloud and Spotted Tail. Could you please help? Regarding the photograph of the great man, that is an other story. There is one I'm sure it is him and it is the Little Bat one. You mentioned the Hamilton list, which right now I have the original catalogue with me. Number 104 is Crazy Horse. So far, in his catalogue Hamilton has been very accurate and I do not see why he should all of the sudden made up the Crazy Horse one. According to Ephraim in his great and brilliant review of the photographers who were at Camp Robison during the four months Crazy Horse was there, Hamilton got there only in August. That is what we knew then, now with the Buckley collection and the Hamilton catalogue, we know that is not the case anymore. We do not know for sure if the Little Bat photo is Hamilton # 104, but we know according to him and also Short Bull that indeed Crazy Horse was photographed and I tend to believe Hamilton and specially Short Bull who recognized even Crazy Horse horse, than a white man who started all this myth, Doctor McGillicuddy, known for his exaggerations who did know nothing about our great man. Thank you for your help.
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Oct 5, 2017 11:46:38 GMT -5
I've got a copy of the Cross photo - or the one supposedly taken by him - but it's badly touched up, presumably where the dancer moved. Anyone know more about it or when and where it was taken Presumably he didn't just take one and there more that haven't surfaced.
|
|