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Post by charlie on Jul 17, 2008 5:05:34 GMT -5
That rebus! Making comparison between two photos, i think that they are the same person: HIGH (TALL) BEAR - Minneconjou. Also the photographer is the same: Huffman. For more surely, we must wait the opinions of the great Experts.... I also hope that anyone added bio-infos about him!
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frank
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Post by frank on Jul 17, 2008 6:19:14 GMT -5
I think they have different eyes and nose....if you were talking abou those 2 pics that I have posted. We need to wait the High Ones to come and judge .
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 18, 2008 11:53:22 GMT -5
Diane, you are talking about Charlie the Italian Stallion right? Is he registered in here or what.... I didnt see him on members list? Yes! Since nothing else on this thread is "for sure," I can tell you that the photo came from our Italian friend Charlie and that he has now posted here. Welcome, Charlie! Diane
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frank
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Post by frank on Jul 18, 2008 12:36:06 GMT -5
Yeap, where are all the Mr. knowledges now when we need them... is it Miniconjou or Sans Arc HB in the first pic posted under this topic..? Arghhh...
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Post by jmccalla44 on Jul 18, 2008 22:27:44 GMT -5
I went back and looked at Kingsley Bray's book on Crazy Horse. I thought that was where I had seen him as being a Sans Arc.
He has Red Bear and High Bear being 2 of the Deciders in the Sans Arc camp at Spotted Tail in '77. They joined the scouts as sergeants under Touch the Clouds in Company E, which was formed around the leaders of the Northern village. Later in the famous meeting with Clark over the Nez Perce, he says Clark invited Touch the Clouds and High Bear to discuss the situation, and Crazy Horse tagged along as a guest of theirs.
I like the first photo...tough looking character.
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frank
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Post by frank on Jul 18, 2008 22:57:24 GMT -5
Same here, Ive always liked that pic. I remember that my father had that photo in A3 size on our livingroom wall when I was like 7 or 8. I like High Bears face, he has that weird "Samurai look" on his face . Actually that pic shows quite well how closely related North American Indians and Asians are. Since Miniconjou and Sans Arc had so close relations I guess he could have been either one. Which one (originally) that would be nice to know though...
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 19, 2008 15:05:59 GMT -5
The L.A. Huffman photograph of High Bear is indeed one of my favourites.
Mostly I saw this man identified as Oglala. In the biography about Huffman “The Frontier Years – L.A. Huffman, photographer of the Plains” by Brown and Felton he is also labelled “High Bear, Ogallalla Sioux”.
There is the following information about High Bear in the footnotes of the book:
High Bear was a man of importance. Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to check identities of subchiefs such as this one. Also, in this case, the situation is further complicated by the fact that there were at least five High Bears among the Sioux (Jugde Frank Zahn, letter to authors, January 4, 1953). Huffman identified this Indian as a subchief of Spotted Eagle´s band and an Oglala. He was one of Sitting Bull´s lieutenants when this chief held a conference with Colonel Miles “between the lines” on October 20, 1876. (Stanley Vestal, Sitting Bull, p. 202); and probably he was the High Bear referred to by Cornelia Adair (later owner of the famous JA ranch in the Texas Panhandle) in her record of a council she attended with Colonel Dodge near the Sidney Barracks on the South Platte. This council was held October 8, 1874, with the chiefs of the “Cut Off” band of Oglala, and the High Bear made a speech at the council. (Cornelia Adair, My Diary, August 30th to November 5th , 1874, p. 95)
Okay, a lot more confusion here. If High Bear was a subchief of Spotted Eagle, why shouldn´t he be Sans Arc? Perhaps he led an Oglala group that followed Spotted Eagle to Canada or from there back to Montana? I am also uncertain about the last information, because it is even more unlikely that an Kiyuksa leader was connected to Spotted Eagle´s Sans Arc.
The Minicoujou Tall Bear, who was either photographed by Huffman (posted on page 1 by Frank) was a “medicine man” of Hump´s band.
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Post by jmccalla44 on Jul 19, 2008 19:55:50 GMT -5
There must have been High Bears running everywhere!! When I was flipping through Bray's Crazy Horse, for the post above, I saw another High Bear he has listed in the Agency faction orginizing to arrest CH. I'm assuming this one is an Oglala (i guess that's a plausible assumption, if he's at Red Cloud during that time). The Sans Arc headman is still at Spotted Tail and is in the northern village there as CH arrives. If there are more than one does anyone know if the photo is indeed the Sans Arc(?) headman , High Bear, or could it be another. When I googled High Bear, this came up. I thought it was totally random, but cool I guess. www.stickergiant.com/High-Bear_ekz004.html
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frank
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Post by frank on Jul 19, 2008 21:58:36 GMT -5
So Dietmar...would you say then that it is ok that I have this specific HB listed as Miniconjou on my website? And it is ok and not a crime to do so? Because of all the uncertainty...
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clw
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Post by clw on Jul 20, 2008 11:55:26 GMT -5
"Either"?? I am soooo confused. Are you confirming that the Huffman photograph is from Hump's band?
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 20, 2008 16:14:15 GMT -5
I meant this Tall Bear. He is also in a group photograph by Huffman with Hump and some warriors of his Minicoujou band.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 20, 2008 16:19:47 GMT -5
Frank,
I would not want to give you a definite answer yet. The fact that High Bear was photographed in one series with Spotted Eagle and other Sans Arcs speaks for me for the Sans Arc theory, although Huffman himself identifies him as Oglala. I will try to find more information on this.
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Post by liverpoolannie on Jul 20, 2008 16:37:43 GMT -5
Well I found this .... more confusion I think ....... !! According to the 1877 Agreement with the Sioux nation Mato-wankantu, [High Bear,] his x mark. is listed under OGALLALLA SIOUX --- CHIEFS AND HEADMEN www.lakotaarchives.com/lak1877sigtxt.htmlbut then .... Standing Rock ‘UNCPAPA’ - 14 - 27 July 1885 - (Hunkpapa Band Chiefs) 1) Cetan Wakiyan Chief Thunder Hawk 2) Mato Cuwiyuksa Chief Broken Bear Rib 3) Wanbli Wakantuya Chief High Eagle 4) Mato Ite Chief Bear's Face 5) Akicita Hanska Chief Long Soldier 6) Mato Ocinsica Chief Cross Bear 7) Tejikjice Chief Belly Fat 8) Tatoka Iyanke Chief Running Antelope 9) Mato Wakantuya Chief High Bear In the 1885 Standing Rock Ration list Chief Bear Face Hunkpapa had 22 lodges and 95 people under his care. People under his care: Mato Knaskiyan (Crazy Bear); Mato Ciqana (Little Bear); Mato Sapa (Black Bear); Otonwela (Goose's Wife); Wahancankayapi (Used as a Shield); Sungmanitu Ciqa (Little Wolf); Rbayela Mani (Walking Quietly); Ayutapila (Looking At); Mato Akicita (Bear Soldier); Mato Wakantuya (High Bear); Wamunon (Stealing); Wakiyan Luta (Red Thunder); Wojuha (Sack); Mila Kicun (Use His Knife); Marpiya To (Blue Cloud); Hin to Gleska (Spotted Blue Fur); Kangi Pa (Crow's Head); Ite Omagaju (Rain In the Face); Tate win (Wind Woman); Mato Rlo Iyanke (Bear GrowlRunning); Ceknake win (Breech Cloth); WamniomniTowin (Blue Whirlwind); Doesn't help does it ?? ... I'll get my coat !! Annie
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clw
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Post by clw on Jul 20, 2008 17:47:44 GMT -5
Deitmar ~
That is a photograph I would dearly love to see. Is it possible for you to post it? I hope?
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frank
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Post by frank on Jul 20, 2008 21:00:07 GMT -5
Errrr....
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