brock
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by brock on Nov 7, 2009 15:02:36 GMT -5
LaDonna,
I will ask Ernie. We'll see where it goes.
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Post by ladonna on Nov 10, 2009 10:07:38 GMT -5
So far this is just an ideal for a history conference on Sitting Bull I have not talked with Sitting Bull College yet but will this coming week.
Just a sideline-Ron His Horse Is Thunder is no longer the chairman
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brock
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by brock on Nov 13, 2009 4:31:38 GMT -5
Ladonna,
I sent Ernie your invitation word for word.
Ernie answered that before he can speak at Standing Rock it would require a Wiping of Tears ceremony for he and his two remaining sisters (Lydia died a few weeks ago) with the reservation. Also he would like to be contacted privately rather than in a third party manner in a chat room. I can give you his email and phone number if you message me. Also he wants to let everyone know he rejects the title of historian, he is only Sitting Bull's great grandson that tells only his own family oral history and will not try tell others. Personally I think it would be wonderful if there was a Wiping of the Tears. I think it would take a great weight off not just the family's shoulders but of the band's shoulders. Tell the powers up there that stubbornness and a buck fifty buys a cup of coffee. ;-)
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Post by aurelia on Nov 13, 2009 14:40:58 GMT -5
Ladonna,
I have a question for you. My family always said we were closely related to Sitting Bull and as you know Spotted Eagle was very close to Sitting Bull staying in Canada until hunger finally forced them back to the U.S. I'm wondering if this relationship was through Sitting Bull's mother? I know that when my Aunt taught school at Little Eagle the people there acknowledged the close relationship with our family. One of our grandfathers Moses Red Bird also spoke about the close relationship when two of our women married at Standing Rock. I know it's difficult to varify these relationships and all I have is the oral history of my family. This is the Itazipcho relatives.
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Post by ladonna on Nov 17, 2009 12:49:50 GMT -5
Ladonna, I sent Ernie your invitation word for word. Ernie answered that before he can speak at Standing Rock it would require a Wiping of Tears ceremony for he and his two remaining sisters (Lydia died a few weeks ago) with the reservation. Also he would like to be contacted privately rather than in a third party manner in a chat room. I can give you his email and phone number if you message me. Also he wants to let everyone know he rejects the title of historian, he is only Sitting Bull's great grandson that tells only his own family oral history and will not try tell others. Personally I think it would be wonderful if there was a Wiping of the Tears. I think it would take a great weight off not just the family's shoulders but of the band's shoulders. Tell the powers up there that stubbornness and a buck fifty buys a cup of coffee. ;-) I just thought it would be nice I have no rights to do ceremonies so that is not my department. Maybe the family should be in charge of something like that. Not me. This was going to be a history conference for all the authors who wrote about Sitting bull to come to the reservation as well native speakers. The Chairman, Charles W. Murphy is not invovled in this in fact he is Yanktonais. We are working with Sitting Bull college for this conference
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brock
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by brock on Nov 17, 2009 20:23:07 GMT -5
LaDonna,
Not my call. That's what he said.
I believe from Ernie and his sister's perspective (especially his eldest sister) he's including the police force which was an arm of the agency bureaucracy. He sees this as bigger than just family. My gut says that if Murphy is a good politician (Yanktonai or not he's still seen as the head of Standing Rock) he'll figure out how to pull this off since he represents Standing Rock. It would at least open some channels and may begin to eliminate the cloud that hangs over much of the Sitting Bull dialogue including commerce perceptions.
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Post by ladonna on Nov 18, 2009 10:17:25 GMT -5
I still think this is a family issues with the hunkpapa I really don't want to get invovled with those peoples issues down there in Rock creek.
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Post by gregor on Nov 28, 2009 10:20:45 GMT -5
Hello everyone, there is a new kid in town. My name is Gregor and I live in Germany in the neighborhood of our friend Dietmar. Dietmar and I met during the great Sitting Bull exhibition in Bremen/Germany in 2008. Since then, we had a lot of discussions about the Lakota and especially sitting Bull issues. I’m researching for several years about the Lakota and Sitting Bull, and had the great luck to meet Ernie LaPointe, first via Internet and later in person in South Dakota and Germany. Ernie, a very special and generous person (If you read this Ernie – greetings from Germany, hope to see you next year!). I visit this wonderful knowledge base for some years and freeze up again and again in awe of the deep knowledge and understanding of many members. In particular, Kingslay Bray and Ephriam Dickson inspire me again and again. I have long been reluctant to participate here, finally Dietmar convinced me. Among Lakota / Bio / Sitting Bull you will find a list of my Sitting Bull photographs with commentaries. In this regard, a very special THANK YOU to Diane Merkel & Dietmar. Because this site has given me so much information and insight – in the future I will try to give something back. Bye for now! Yours Gregor
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Post by Dietmar on Nov 28, 2009 11:11:40 GMT -5
Hi Gregor,
I´m very glad you joined us eventually!!! I´m sure your contributions will enrich our discussions, especially when we talk about Sitting Bull and the Lakota.
Everyone who is interested in Sitting Bull photographs should take a look at Gregor´s files Diane has just uploaded. I will start an own thread for comments on them.
Grüße nach Münster!
Dietmar
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Post by ftpeckpabaksa on Jan 31, 2010 17:17:11 GMT -5
Maybe Ernie should ask them??? Duh!!!!!! Who would he ask? Who would he think is responsbile? Just asking? Shavedhead died with no issues, Bullheads have never been asked, and they did make amends with Sarah Little Spotted Horse in 1993, why do they have to do it gain with the next generations? Red Tomahawks have not been asked either, so if Ernie don't ask how is anyone suppose to know just asking If there was a formal letter why has it not been showen to the families concerned? So many questions. WOW.
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Post by clarkkimberling on Aug 15, 2010 13:36:37 GMT -5
Two lesser known accounts of the arrest and killing of Sitting Bull are preserved in the E. D. Mossman Papers at the State Historical Society of North Dakota. One is an affidavit by Wakutemani, posted at amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=teton&action=display&thread=990 It was posted there because of its relevance to Robert P. Higheagle and his father, Martin High Eagle; according to Wakutemani's account, High Eagle "had been chosen to handle the person of Sitting Bull" during the arrest. The second account, by an Indian Policemen named Black Hills, is apparently written by Eugene David Mossman (1872-1959), who was Superintendent of the Standing Rock Indian School (1921-1933). Here is Black Hills' account: I live at Cannon Ball and am seventy-one years old. We policemen left the Agency on a Saturday forenoon and stopped at Oak Creek (near present town of McLaughlin). A tepee was already set up for us, Tomahawk, Black Hills, Hat, Little Soldier, and White Woman and we remained there until Sunday afternoon while Eagleman from Porcupine and police from all other districts joined us.
Orders from the Agent (Major McLaughlin) were to "be brave, don't pull the trigger first. If hostiles begin shooting, then shoot." Feed for horses and men was sent ahead by mule team. Never Tired Talking drove the outfit. On Sunday evening we left for Bullhead's place on the Grand River. Bed and grub wagon went along to Bullhead's place. We did not sleep and on the way from Bullhead's place we stopped at Greyeagle's place. The story that booze was given the police is positively not true.
When we stopped at Greyeagle's place Lieut. Bullhead to give us instructions. After giving us the plan of action and designating what part each one was to take in the arrest he shook hands with each of us he said "I am going to get killed. I will not run away from the danger. Be brave, like the Agent told us to be." We already knew we were going to arrest S. B. and reports had come in that the hostiles were going to fight. We were armed with six shooters and government rifles, but I did not know how to use the rifle so used by [my] own single shot.
When close to the Indian hostile camp we raced for his house. Certain men were detailed to go inside. It was a large house where S. B. was living with two of this three wives. S. B. was brought out by Bullhead, Shavehead, Tomahawk and Eagleman and others but was still dark. The officers wanted him to get into a wagon and go. An officer brot [brought] his [Sitting Bull's] White horse but he refused to go! I will not go unless you kill me first! he said. They replied they would not put him in the guardhouse but wanted to take him to Fort Yates where he would get borders [orders] to stop the Ghost Dancing. They urged him to go as the Soldires were coming and if they began shooting they would frighten the children but if he went peaceably there would be no trouble.
While they were arguing all the men and women in the hostile camp came running with their guns ready to shoot. At that moment I thought I would never live to tell this story forty years afterward.
While they were arguing a man jumped from the crowd and shouted to let S. B. go and beat it. He ran up to Bullhead and shot him. The shooting at once became general. The hostiles ran for the brush and by that time it was daylight. All the police killed were by the first burst of firing, except Armstrong who was killed by the firing from the brush. We put Lieut. Bullhead and Shavehead in S. B. house and the dead police lay ouside. The soldiers reached the top of the hill overlooking the battle ground in the valley along the Grand River and fired solid shot twice apparently at the police. Tomahawk put up a blanket as a flag and the soldiers then shelled the brush, scattering the hostiles and putting an end to the battle.
The soldiers gave us breakfast and afterward we loaded the dead police and Siting Bull in a wagon and started for the agency. Bullhead killed Sitting Bull. When Bullhead was shot he turned and shot Sitting Bull. Stoneman drove dead police and body of Sitting Bull back to the agency. We stopped at Oak Creek on Monday nite and the military killed a beef. Got home Tuesday. Bullhead died Wed. or Thursday. Shavehead died before we got home.
Following Black Hills' account is this note: It is now plain to me why no affidavit was taken of Blackhills' testimony. The story was given to me by the interpreter and hastily written down in broken sentences in lead pencil and I had intended to have the story put in nice shape before Black Hills signed it. Too much to do and I have had to write this story from the lead pencil notes.
Again, I'm presuming that the writer was Mossman. Clark
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neilg
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by neilg on Mar 20, 2011 9:22:28 GMT -5
Hi , I have just joined the forum and have been reading about the return of Sitting Bulls scalplock and leggings. Apologies if I am stating facts that are already covered elsewhere by the discussion group but I just wanted to mention that it was the late Dr Colin Taylor who found the scalplock at the Smithsonian. See Iho'lena Voices from the past;messages for the future.Cultural,religious and military content of Plains Indian artefacts {Verlag fur Amerikanistik 1998 - ISBN 3-89510-061-7. Colin had heard rumours about the possible existance of these pieces at the SI and made a search before he needed to catch a plane back to the UK. He found the scalplock in a brown envelope towards the back of a filing cabinet. In the book referred to above [p13] he states "a small package was found amongst [Major] McLaughlin's papers. It contained a lock of hair and it was labelled in the Major's handwriting "Sitting Bulls hair". It begs the question if McLaughlin knowlingly understood the symbolism behind keeping this scalplock amongst his possessions ?
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Post by ladonna on Mar 20, 2011 9:52:31 GMT -5
yes McLaughlin knew his wife was Dakota
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Post by ladonna on Mar 20, 2011 12:19:57 GMT -5
If this is true then you should contact Ernie Lapoint about returning it to him as a direct Descendant of Sitting Bull
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neilg
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by neilg on Mar 20, 2011 13:15:08 GMT -5
Hi Ladonna, This will be the same scalplock returned by the Smithsonian to EL. I think it was back in 1997 or 1998 when Colin was allowed access to look for the leggings and scalplock.
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