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Post by jasper4 on Aug 18, 2015 12:33:39 GMT -5
Hello does anyone have any information on a Tulac Cochise or Ramona Rios of California claiming to be the bloodline of Cochise? Ramona Rios is on face book claiming to be the bloodline of Cochise though Naiche. Thanks FYI had my expert facebook my grandkid do some recon seems mr tulac claims to be one of taza kin or group which got away and went to a old known stronghold in old mexico where some apaches found refuge. Yet the tale of tom jeffords helping taza kin out of az is taled to the history of nino cochise who claimed to be taza son. Of which the ones in okla and new mexico said no to. Thus again this person is from rio grande city in southern most texas. And the ramona naiche rios claims to be cousin of his. So again your call and spoke to Mr Silas Cochise who states a big NO. |
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Post by Mithlo on Aug 18, 2015 22:25:25 GMT -5
Just like my Cuz....best stay clear of both of them....mostly Tulac!! Neither of them are us....and none of us will have anything to do with them! And all this Nino Cochise crap is just that....some may fall for these kind of frauds but we (N'de) know better.
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Post by jasper4 on Aug 24, 2015 12:22:54 GMT -5
Hi to everyone! I'm reading the book of Alicia Delgadillo about the bios of war prisoners, and about Asa Daklugie i read that he, Naiche and Eugene Chihuahua feel to made a terrible mistake to press chiricahua for go to Mescalero, and they wrote to the governement asking for a new removal of the Chiricahua. Why this feels? Do you Know something about this matter? Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1630/chiricahuas-mescalero-reservation#ixzz2gK7HWF6kUlzana. This is the first time I hear of Chiricahuas feeling that they made a terrible mistake by going to Mescalero. I have interviewed plenty of Chiricahua descendants and White Tail natives and I have never heard them express those feelings. I have heard from all of them, that conditions were harsh the first few years. The high altitude, cold weather, lack of shelter and food tested their endurance to their limits. Things got better as they started cultivating the ground, raising cattle and building two bedroom tin roof homes. It is very possible that the three leaders may have re-considered their decisions to relocate and or have chosen White Tail as their place for adobe. Some things are left best unstated. The fact of band differences and also the ones who were out last which caused grief for all. Or the family distrust of the mescaleros. There in lies many causes for misgivings of moving to mescalero. I know of whitetail and the first harsh winter. Yet these folks were used to the mountains of AZ or New Mexico yet had practiced moving south into old mexico. Again old wounds die hard until all forget family disputes or the fact remains many saw the scouts as less than user friendly. |
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Post by dT on Aug 25, 2015 22:30:26 GMT -5
I regret the history that caused the Chiricahuas to be divided amongst themselves. And also the White Mountain people from the Chiricahuas. I do not believe that the ancient Chiefs would be happy about this. But we cannot turn back time, change the period of time called the Apache Wars.
More than ever - Native Americans need to stand together.
We will lose the Earth soon, and it will be gone for our children and grandchildren.
Peace to everyone!
dT
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Post by dT on Sept 17, 2015 9:57:50 GMT -5
Jasper4 and Mithlo
I went to the Apache areas in southern Arizona last weekend. They were very quiet.
I said prayers for you while I was near Fort Bowie. I also did personal ceremonies at the Cochise Stronghold and the Chiricahua National Monument. This included prayers for all Indians who lost their land from injustice in the past ... and those Indians in the world today who are still being killed because of greed and broken promises.
If there was an easy way to post images on this forum, I would show some recent pictures. But it has become more difficult to display images in a simple way.
dT
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Post by jasper4 on Oct 23, 2015 11:12:36 GMT -5
I regret the history that caused the Chiricahuas to be divided amongst themselves. And also the White Mountain people from the Chiricahuas. I do not believe that the ancient Chiefs would be happy about this. But we cannot turn back time, change the period of time called the Apache Wars. More than ever - Native Americans need to stand together. We will lose the Earth soon, and it will be gone for our children and grandchildren. Peace to everyone! dT The relations of certain bands is well known. The white mountain were in fear of losing their own rez thus some as alchesay became scouts although he and geronimo remain so friends. The end result of geronimos group which caused all of the chiricahuas to be dealt POW label made many who had always wanted peace, at odds with other family units. And the reality is family units or groups were the foundation of the culture. The facts of many nantans and warriors before the last breakout will be go down in history in the oral histories of many a family. Example the tale by Jason Benitnez of "I fought with Geronimo" gives a not so positive account on geronimo. Reality is as in the case of Duncan Balachu whose own kin had Balache a subnantan of Victorio and Mangas and was kin to Juan Jose so the tales of this effort by some is such that when all the chiricahua ended in oklahoma. The old wounds or feuds between families and or groups remained. Point being all are human with same traits as all on this rock. Besides the easternband of red paint or willow and the band of cochise had and are different in many ways. jess saying |
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Post by dT on Oct 23, 2015 21:06:26 GMT -5
Jasper4. Thank you, that was useful to know. It was a VERY difficult time for the Chiricahua people. How many tribes or ethnic groups can say that they were almost exterminated completely? So when we keep that in mind, the Apaches survived a terrible ordeal. I would expect differences of opinion and fighting amongst bands.
I think it's a shame that the Chiricahuas are scattered between Oklahoma, Mescalero, and San Carlos. And some in Mexico and other places. Your people were scattered to the four winds of the Earth. But hopefully their spirit remains strong out there!
dT
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Post by jasper4 on Oct 26, 2015 13:13:35 GMT -5
Jasper4. Thank you, that was useful to know. It was a VERY difficult time for the Chiricahua people. How many tribes or ethnic groups can say that they were almost exterminated completely? So when we keep that in mind, the Apaches survived a terrible ordeal. I would expect differences of opinion and fighting amongst bands. I think it's a shame that the Chiricahuas are scattered between Oklahoma, Mescalero, and San Carlos. And some in Mexico and other places. Your people were scattered to the four winds of the Earth. But hopefully their spirit remains strong out there! dT Friend yes it is hopeful. Yet many things have been said or written on the Chiricahua tribe. Crook I think said we are the tigers of the human species. or that one apache can fight as ten or is an army unto ourselves. Many customs or traditions have been forgotten or lost. I can give litany of some maybe I will or maybe as taught are meant only for my kin. As others NDE have said alot has been written in books or stated by authors with good intentions. I say this all were once tribal in europe or the midle east or russia. No matter it is what we all do with that knowledge. I think it is good that via this media knowledge is spread about the apache(which I dont really care for this word, since it means enemy). All chiricahua were and are given POWER by the one God as are all people. Yet it is the nature of the beast in all that needs working on. |
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Post by naiches2 on Nov 1, 2015 14:25:19 GMT -5
Hi guys! Who among them Paul Guydelkon Sr.? Any ideas?  |
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Post by WarriorHeart on Mar 17, 2018 7:13:17 GMT -5
Sad that there is so much 'infighting' among various factions.. The original question was in regard to 'Tulac'... I had many conversations with him, wrote many things down and have two letters from him in his own hand that say more than most know.. My investigation.. some 10+ years ago showed that sadly.. many things he said ( and wrote ) did not add up. This included phone calls with former military people. 'Tulac' ( birth name 'Leonel Lopez' ) passed away in August 2017. Virtually nothing said in his short 'obituary' perhaps most sadly, because a life lived in delusion... But on the matter of 'Nino Cochise'.. Because one Chiricahua woman 'professor' some years back denounced him as a 'fraud'... is sad. So how is it that many 'Presidents' ( be they 'white eyes' or not ) who would certainly have had the means to check his background thoroughly- accepted him?? Were they ALL delusional? I think not. I have in my posession, several letters written by 'Nino' detailing historical facts ( including the 'murder' of 'Taza' ( Tahza ) in Washington- that when I offered to the Nation in San Carlos... talking with a representative who did at first show great interest- refused to 'believe'.. all because of one Chiricahua woman??? If one looks up Nino- there is MUCH to be read, and many persons who would be able to research DID believe him. Sad that only ( as said in the boob 'The First Hundred Years' where-in Nino tells how after some years in the relative safety of Mexico.. he traveled over the border but the Apache who had been 'captured & tamed' seemed to hold a grudge that he and a small band had NOT suffered the indignation of the tribe by being uprooted and moved to the Rez in various locations and states- so what does that say?  I became involved in the mid 2000's in an attempt to bring all the Nations of ALL tribes together and found it was 'impossible' so I eventually 'walked away'.. There are TOO many 'factions' ( those who would forever LOSE the old ways.. the old 'language' to be 'white' & those who would try to keep tradition. This 'forum' is further proof of the 'people' continuing to shoot arrows into their own feet.... |
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Post by gregor on Mar 18, 2018 3:30:28 GMT -5
Read "Apache Voices: Their Stories of Survival as Told to Eve Ball" by Sherry Robinson, p. 62f. !
And "Encyclopedia of Frontier Biography: A-F" by Dan L. Thrapp, p. 291 f.
There is all you must know!
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Post by WarriorHeart on May 20, 2018 8:48:55 GMT -5
I probably read this by ( Eve Ball ) before you did.... Like I said... 'Shooting arrows into our own feet'....
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Post by jasper4 on Sept 10, 2018 18:19:51 GMT -5
Read "Apache Voices: Their Stories of Survival as Told to Eve Ball" by Sherry Robinson, p. 62f. ! And "Encyclopedia of Frontier Biography: A-F" by Dan L. Thrapp, p. 291 f. There is all you must know! good works or the fact that my sources on everything is first person from Oklahoma and mescalero and again good books |
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Post by marinajr on Feb 21, 2022 1:17:41 GMT -5
Photo #2 - Maude Daklugie at far left, Middle unknown. Could woman at far right be Maude's mother?  I say that because...  new to this forum and making my way through the threads...this is quite old I believe it may be Annie (Juan) Kazhe, wife of David Kazhe. I am unsure of the girl in the middle, I will ask around. She would not be Annie's daughter though, her first daughter was born 1918, all children before that were boys. Also I do not believe she is the same person in photo #3 you refer to, the woman standing against the tree. They just don't look the same to my eyes. In the Chiricahua Women thread a member by the name of sasja ( I believe) posted a few photo's of women in Whitetail Mescalero, and she identifies Annie in a couple of them-just FYI for comparison. |
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Post by saskia21 on May 1, 2022 11:57:08 GMT -5
Taken in 1927 Eugene Chihuahua and "Old" Fatty (Gordon)  |
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I became involved in the mid 2000's in an attempt to bring all the Nations of ALL tribes together and found it was 'impossible' so I eventually 'walked away'.. There are TOO many 'factions' ( those who would forever LOSE the old ways.. the old 'language' to be 'white' & those who would try to keep tradition. This 'forum' is further proof of the 'people' continuing to shoot arrows into their own feet....
I say that because...
