Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2011 3:00:40 GMT -5
Traditional Apache Moccasins . . . Can anyone ' give me directions .. on how to make these They are usually made Thigh High ' but are mostly worn folded down a few times to a Calf High. I would dearly ' love to find someone who can help teach me to make them. Thankyou ' so much for your time . Attachments:
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Post by lostson on Feb 26, 2012 18:29:33 GMT -5
I'd like the answer to this one myself. Plus any of their bead work.
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Post by dT on Feb 27, 2012 13:34:19 GMT -5
Bead work ... I may be able to help a little.
I will be out in AZ next month (March) and I will be buying crafts from traditonal N'de artists. So if they give permission ... I may be able to photograph some beadwork.
I don't think there is a difficult problem with making moccasins, or knee-length boots. What you really need are the patterns for cutting the leather. After that, you can stitch or sew the pieces as you like. There are some places on the Internet that sell pattern designs for traditional soft leather Indian shoes. I have seen them. If I have time and I find a location, I will post it.
The question in my mind ... is how were the soles of these boots done? Chances are that soft leather is not very durable if you want to wear it outside. You can go to the Internet and buy "genuine Indian moccasins". But what these craftsmen are actually selling is a soft leather boot, with a hard sole (probably vinyl or synthetic). That's a practical approach, and you could also sew a hard leather sole onto the bottom of the boots. But it would be really interesting to know how the N'de people treated the soles of their boots to make them more durable ... the actual practice of hardening the leather.
dT
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Post by lostson on Feb 27, 2012 14:32:51 GMT -5
Yeah,thanks for any pics you can get so we can see the details of their bead work. Need a pattern too. I tend to think since deer was so valuable,they were made from deer skin with buffalo hide toughened in some way,as the thicker hide to me would've been more durable. Regular leather working/sewing tools should be fine for there construction.
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Post by dT on Feb 27, 2012 15:41:35 GMT -5
I think, though, that if you reproduce your own beadwork based on Apache artists - then you should be careful to say who did the work. There is no real issue if you are just making a few items your own personal use. But if you are selling for a profit, you should be careful to state whether Apache artists did the work, or you have reproductions. You can still have fine-quality items, but it's a matter of being authentic.
That is why I am buying in Arizona ... I want to support actual N'de artists who are perfecting their own skills and carrying on their traditions.
dT
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Post by lostson on Feb 27, 2012 16:39:03 GMT -5
Well,they wouldn't be for sale,but I do want to learn the meaning behind the art work used in bead craft. I've got a lot to learn about the old ones. Just my way of honoring grandpa,he was 100% Apache.
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Post by dT on Feb 27, 2012 19:07:07 GMT -5
OK - absolutely no problem. No offense intended.
I will talk to local artists and try to get some more info for you.
Will post it here.
best wishes,
dT
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Post by lostson on Feb 28, 2012 10:37:14 GMT -5
Thak you for trying to get the art info. I figure it's just like sand painting,the artwork the dancer's costumes have,etc. All have a traditional meaning,intended to convey particular thoughts of the artist involved with regard to what is being conveyed.No offense taken. I just didn't want to put forth anything negative. More like family history,you know...
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Henri
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Post by Henri on Feb 29, 2012 5:12:58 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Mar 1, 2012 12:44:45 GMT -5
Henri ... very nice moccasins.
They are way out of my price range, though. I wear real moccasins ... and they get worn out.
The ones in the picture are decorative. They would be really nice for someone who is performing in a powow.
all the best,
dT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2013 8:02:20 GMT -5
Bead work ... I may be able to help a little. I will be out in AZ next month (March) and I will be buying crafts from traditonal N'de artists. So if they give permission ... I may be able to photograph some beadwork. I don't think there is a difficult problem with making moccasins, or knee-length boots. What you really need are the patterns for cutting the leather. After that, you can stitch or sew the pieces as you like. There are some places on the Internet that sell pattern designs for traditional soft leather Indian shoes. I have seen them. If I have time and I find a location, I will post it. The question in my mind ... is how were the soles of these boots done? Chances are that soft leather is not very durable if you want to wear it outside. You can go to the Internet and buy "genuine Indian moccasins". But what these craftsmen are actually selling is a soft leather boot, with a hard sole (probably vinyl or synthetic). That's a practical approach, and you could also sew a hard leather sole onto the bottom of the boots. But it would be really interesting to know how the N'de people treated the soles of their boots to make them more durable ... the actual practice of hardening the leather. dT Hello Dt I was told by a San Carlos Apache that the soles are made from the 'Back' Lining. And I think Traditional Apache Moccasin Soles are made from Cowhide. Some make them with the hair still on the bottom of the soles , outside of the sole. Not on the inside. He wasn't willing to give too much away , and most of the Apache People are very secretive as to how their moccasins are made. They are made of ' One Piece of Elk ' or deerskin for the Upper , Thigh Length and folded down to the calf area. All across the foot around the heel and up along the leg is One piece of leather. And im told that a Pair can be made from one hide. I know some Apaches use white Latigo for their soles now, and the sewing on of the sole is done by soaking the sole in cold water to make the sewing easier. When it dries it dries in the shape it was when left wet. So if you pull down the toe piece when its dry , it will spring back into place again. You can buy white latigo hides from Nantahala Trading Post or Crazy Crow. I have never bought the Latigo Hide ' but have used the pieces they sell as moccasin soles , I find it very hard wearing .. but if you buy the pieces sold as moccasin soles they are not very thick , some as thin as 1/8" thick and there abouts. I want to try a Latigo Hide to see if it is thicker than the pieces they sell as Latigo Moccasin Soles. Hope this helps you abit .. for apache beadwork pics , just type in google search box , Apache Moccasins , Apache Beaded Bags then above click on Images .. Have fun ' browsing and good luck. |
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Post by lgarcia on Sept 11, 2014 9:20:55 GMT -5
White Apache:
Crazy Crow Trading Post in 2013 published the 3rd edition of the following book:
White, George M (originally published in 1969)
Native American Moccasins: A craft Manual.
Pottsboro, TX: Crazy crow trading Post 2013
This book has the patterns for Apache 2 piece, 3 piece, and boot moccasins.
Louie
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Post by dT on Sept 11, 2014 12:18:18 GMT -5
thanks for the helpful tips above. I need to get busy and start making my own mocassins.
I will set that as a goal thios winter ... to see if I can make a pair. I am sure that
my skills will be poor, and probably the Apaches would laugh at my first attempt.
I wonder how much the moccasins made by the Apaches would be different from the ones made
by the Lakotas or the Crows. Its an interesting question. Perhaps over time I will get to
know the answer better :-)
I need to get more serious with my arrowheads to. I made a couple of bone arrowheads - I need
to try them out. I am also looking for a quick way to make better metal arrowheads (not bought
from the stores). It's fairly easy to make copper arrowheads, which are OK for target shooting.
But real arrowheads for hunting take more work :-)
Pete (dT)
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