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Post by Diane Merkel on Aug 21, 2011 9:52:33 GMT -5
We are very pleased to announce that Rod Thomas has agreed to discuss his book, Rubbing Out Long Hair: The American Indian Story of the Little Big Horn in Art and Word, which won the 2010 G. Joseph Sills Jr. Book Award from the Custer Battlefield Historical & Museum Association (CBHMA). Rubbing Out Long Hair: The American Indian Story of the Little Big Horn in Art and WordHard cover, 339 pages, 253 illustrations susney.com/ROLH.htmWe hope you will welcome Rod to this thread by asking him questions about his book and ledger drawings in general.
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 5, 2011 12:50:13 GMT -5
Rod and fellow members, I hope many of you have enjoyed Rod´s book in the meantime. A fascinating collection of Indian pictographs on the Battle of the Little Bighorn. One of the first scenes of battle decriptions I payed attention to when reading the book was that one on page 43. Amos Bad Heart Bull painted the killing of Whirlwind and Bobtail Bull during the early phase of the battle when Reno was forced to retreat. I scanned the picture from the book with Rod´s permission and put in the names of the individuals. What we see is that the Cheyenne Whirlwind is killed by Arikara Bobtail Bull, who was scouting for Custer´s troops during the campaign. In turn, Bobtail Bull was shot from his horse by Running Eagle and eventually killed by Young Skunk (who himself was killed later). I´m sure very interesting to some of us is that Runs Fearless is shown here, taking second coup on Bobtail Bull, possibly dead at that time. There is no photograph of him, because he was killed shortly after the battle, but good to see at least a drawing of how he looked. We discussed Runs Fearless, the Oglala in earlier threads, for example here: amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=1054I wonder wo the Indian at far left is, he seems not identified. And what do we know about Running Eagle?
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Post by shan on Sept 5, 2011 16:32:48 GMT -5
Dietmar,
Amos Bad Heart Bull made several other drawings in which Runs Fearless is shown, more particularly Runs Fearless famous feats in a big battle with the Crows in which he killed or disabled four enemy warriors in single combat. Sorry I may have the numbers wrong and I'm afraid I can't remember the name of the battle as I don't have the book to hand.
A question for Rod Thomas. Rod given that it must be a couple of years now since you turned all your material over to the publishers, have you heard of, or come across any other Indian artwork relating to the battle that you were unaware of, and thus didn't include in the book?
Shan,
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Post by rodthomas on Sept 6, 2011 10:25:23 GMT -5
Dietmar, thanks and look forward to these discussions. Some of the Bad Heart Bull images are in the "public domain" so if any one would like that list I'll be more than happy to post. What this means according to the laws of the land is that while one must pay a "reproducible image fee" the "use fee" may be waived. Well, that's the theory anyway.
I hope we get some discussion on this and the other drawings showing the fights with the Arikara and Crow scouts. I'm redoing my description of them for the White Swan biography and can always use a fresh perspective.
Shan, thanks and great question. Yes, about 20 some images have been sent to me most of which were not of the battle. There are five which more than likely are. This was one of the goals of the book was to help locate more art (any art) and especially art of the LBH. We are fairly certain of the artist and just need the time to place the vignettes with narrative.
One of the fun things in doing the book was tracking down rumors of artwork. It's how we found the White Swan painting in Arkansas and the Bad Heart Bull muslin painting in Pennslyvania. We have a few more "rumors" to check out now as well. The five mentioned above are in fact in a ledger collection whose rumored existence I was not able to confirm before the book was out. Six months later - viola!
Thanks again and everyone please have a great day!
Regards, Rod...
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Post by rodthomas on Sept 6, 2011 10:28:36 GMT -5
Uh...make that Pennsylvania...first day back to work...Cheers!
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Post by shan on Sept 6, 2011 15:22:46 GMT -5
Hi Rod,
thanks for the reply, a couple more questions. Will there be any chance to see these five new images some time in the future, are they all by different artists, or the same hand.
Likewise the 20 images you mentioned, have these been published elsewhere or have they been hidden away. I'm guessing that as they were sent to you because the sender thought they might be about B.L.B.H. in which case I'd guess that they must show conflict with white people more particularly soldiers. again, any chance we will get to see some of these images?
regards Shan
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Post by rodthomas on Sept 7, 2011 11:04:23 GMT -5
Shan, thanks...the publication of the "Maffet Ledger" by the Metropolitan Museum of Art provides most of the ones in discussion. There were three "tipi liners" that were sent but already published in Mauer's "Visions of the People" and one other book I can't remember at the moment. I was asked to help with analyzing a hide painting and not only was it not about the LBH it was also a fake. Once I get the White Swan bio off to press I'll try to get an article or two done about them and any others that come our way.
I don't have the link handy for the Maffet Ledger but a quick Bing should bring it right up.
Hope this helps and please have a great day!
Regards, Rod...
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Post by shan on Sept 19, 2011 4:00:58 GMT -5
Rod,
This is my busy time so I haven't had time to go through my books on ledger art, but it seems to me that the Maffet ledger has quite a mixture of different artists work which also seems to span a number of years.
I'm pretty sure I recognize the work of several of the artists from other ledgers, but in the main, it looks to me as if these were made by southern Cheyenne and Arapohoe warrior artists, so the chance that any of the works actually refer to the battle of the LBH would be pretty remote.
All of which leads me to my question. Do you think this particular ledger is a composite? In other words were the drawings collected from several different sources and then put together in one book?
regards Shan
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Post by rodthomas on Sept 20, 2011 15:24:58 GMT -5
Shan, thanks. According to the provenance information at the Museum the answer is yes. Maffet had different men draw in the book. I've not studied the drawings other than the ones indicated as possible LBH but no others. I believe, without the in-depth analysis needed to really conclude, that some were done by Wooden Leg. Once I'm done with White Swan research and others, I intend to spend some time with this ledger book. But for now, several different artists absolutely.
Regards, Rod...
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Post by shan on Sept 21, 2011 16:44:33 GMT -5
Rod,
I've been looking at the Maffet ledger again today and although it's hard to get a perfect look at them due to the size they are reproduced on the site, I'm certain that one of the artists from the Little Wolf ledger, an artist whose work both you Father Peter Powell used, { one of the artists from } to illustate action during the battle of the Little Big Horn, is the same man. Whatsmore, most of the images we see from this particular artist in the Maffet ledger represent battles with white men, the soldiers in particular looking very similar to those represented in the two books I mentioned.
Interesting news about the possibilitiy that some of the drawings may be by Wooden leg, I'll have to go and look at the few reproductions I have to check the style.
Shan
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Post by rodthomas on Nov 5, 2011 12:45:48 GMT -5
Shan, good morning...I've lost your email address somehow. Would you please email me at my Susney address? Thanks...
Hope the art show went well!
Regards, Rod...
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Post by rodthomas on Mar 23, 2015 18:02:51 GMT -5
Rubbing Out Long Hair is now back in print with second printing. This version is softcover and corrected some formatting errors but otherwise the same. Please contact me directly for information and purchase.
rodneygthomas@outlook.com
Regards, Rod...
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Post by Gary on Mar 25, 2015 14:48:44 GMT -5
Well worth getting. I recommend it.
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Post by emilylevine on Jul 7, 2016 13:53:45 GMT -5
I finally have gotten this volume via Interlibrary Loan. Beautifully done, impeccable scholarship. An important work. Thank you, Rod Thomas!
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Post by rodthomas on Jul 8, 2016 12:59:14 GMT -5
Emily, thank you for the kind comments about Rubbing Out Long Hair! Very much appreciated. I am glad you enjoyed the book.
Warm regards, Rod...
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