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Post by kingsleybray on May 20, 2011 6:54:26 GMT -5
Returning to the list of surrendered Sans Arcs in the SITTING BULL SURRENDER CENSUS, Ephriam and I feel that the first twenty or so families in the list probably correspond with the Red Cloth Earring band. This was one of seven Sans Arc camps (wichoti) listed in the contemporary tribal camp-circle by Sans Arc headman Martin Charger (statement to Rev. H. Swift).
Another of the seven camps was the Mazpegnake or Metal Hair Ornaments. My friend Chris Ravenshead interviewed many Cheyenne River elders for me in the early 1990s to try and identify the old Miniconjou and Sans Arc bands, their leading families and early history. He told me that one of the leading tiwahe (extended families) on which this camp was cored was that of Brown Thunder. The Lakota name is Wakinyan-zhi. The colour-term zhi is translated both yellow and brown.
This man, born ca. 1856+, is listed as head of Family no. 268 in the SURRENDER CENSUS. Family no. 273 is that of Running Bull, born ca. 1834. According to Chris Ravenshead, this man belonged to still another Sans Arc band, the Bull Dung (Tatanka Chesli). His wife Cane, born ca. 1831, was the sister of Brown Thunder's maternal grandfather and namesake Brown Thunder I. It therefore looks to me that Running Bull married in to the Metal Hair Ornaments band and lived there - what the Lakotas called a wicha-woha or buried man, because he lived with his wife's relatives.
It therefore seems possible that the cluster of families following the Red Cloth Earring band in the SURRENDER CENSUS equates with the Metal Hair Ornaments band. The tally of Sans Arcs returned to Cheyenne River Agency in spring 1882 shows the clustering of certain families around Brown Thunder, similar to the pattern in the September 1881 listing. Co-occurring families in the two clusters, perhaps to be equated with the Metal Hair Ornaments, include:
Brown Thunder Running Bull Bobtail Dog/Horse Many Holes/Plenty Holes by Wounding Bear Eagle/Eagle Bear Red Eyes Thunder Elk/Buck Elk Thunder
The latter is another relative of the Brown Thunders. Born ca. 1850 he was one of three sons of Charging Hawk, a brother of Brown Thunder I. Thunder Elk's full brother was First Eagle, who married Lame Deer's daughter (Miniconjou, Wakpokiyan band) and is noted in the CENSUS as living in Fool Heart's band. His half-brother (by a different mother) was Beautiful Bald Eagle. This whole family traced their origins back to a man named Builds Fire, who was probably born about 1795. He was the father of Charging Hawk, Brown Thunder I, Cane Woman, and others. He (and several of his descendants, specifically Charging Hawk and Beautiful Bald Eagle) were identified with the Ashke (Lock of Hair) band, an ancient Miniconjou band that had effectively split up by the period under consideration. Key families had become identified with the Sans Arcs Metal Hair Ornaments band. It looks to me that another cluster of families in the Sans Arc CENSUS list, centring on the sequence No's 268-282, correspond to the Metal Hair Ornaments.
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Post by kingsleybray on May 20, 2011 8:05:58 GMT -5
Brown Thunder I was born about 1820. According to Chris Ravenshead information, he became the family head of the Wakinyan-zhi tiwahe, one of the constituent extended families within the Metal Hair Ornaments camp.
His name, as Yellow Thunder, is listed as one of the braves or head-soldiers of the tribe in a list of Sans Arc Chiefs and Braves, ca. 1855, part of the family papers of chief Crow Feather, now in the South Dakota State Historical Society.
Chris named one of the brothers of Brown Thunder II as Charley In Amongst, born ca. 1865. He is listed in the family of his elder brother 'Yellow Thunder' in the SURRENDER CENSUS. His name is given in Lakota as Wicegna inyanke, and translated as Running Amidst.
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Post by kingsleybray on May 21, 2011 14:54:27 GMT -5
I think the man named Plenty Holes By Wounding, SURRENDER CENSUS Family no. 269, must be the same as Brown Thunder I. His wife is given as Red Old Woman. Chris Ravenshead told me that Brown Thunder I had two wives, Old Red Woman and White Buffalo Woman. The latter was the mother of Brown Thunder I's children Her Iron Shield (born ca. 1845 - a little late?) and Joseph Little Dog (born ca. 1859). Old Red Woman's children included Little. Her Iron Shield was the mother of Brown Thunder II, the head of family no. 268.
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Post by Dietmar on May 22, 2011 4:04:37 GMT -5
There´s a bit on Brown Thunder in the Ziebach County book, page 300, which also can be found online: BROWN THUNDER by Faye Longbrake
According to a relative of the Brown Thunder family, the name Brown Thunder was acquired through an incident with the Crow Indians. A Crow war party came to raid a Sioux encampment of the Wakinyangi band. In the ensuing battle the Sioux killed two Crow braves and for his act of bravery, was given the name of Brown Thunder. He married Old Red Woman, who died September 17, 1912. They had a son, also named Brown Thunder, who was born about 1853. This Brown Thunder was married to Rosie Holy Leaf and they had seven children. They camped along the Cheyenne River around 1888-89, later settling at Cherry Creek about 1890, after being moved out from Fort Bennett. One of their sons was Raymond Brown Thunder of this generation. Raymond was born in 1887 or 1889. This is a portrait of Brown Thunder, probably Brown Thunder II: Brown Thunder (edited from a group photo)
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Post by Dietmar on May 22, 2011 5:57:53 GMT -5
Brown Thunder in 1908
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Post by cankpeopi on Jul 22, 2015 10:27:18 GMT -5
Question for Kingsley; I have a Great Grand Father named Amos Little AKA "All Around Fat" AKA "Charles Ironhawk" AKA "Horseshoe". In the family tree we have Amos Littles parents listed as Horseshoe (Father) and Rattles/Walks Fast as Mother. Amos was raised by Ironhawk (Wajaja, brother to Little Bird) and Lone Woman. The Lonewoman (b. 1862) listed here under Spotted Eagle I believe. I also see that Brown Thunder I was married to "Old Red Woman" and that her children included someone named "Little" I was wondering if you had any insights on this combination within your research documents?
With conversations with an older relative it was stated that our grandmother told them that we have the right to use Ironhawk, Little, All Around Fat and Horseshoe as family names. Grandpa used Amos Little as his name on Pine Ridge and Charles Ironhawk while in Cheyenne River (3 sections of land allotted there, no land on Pine Ridge). Horseshoe also had other sons, one I know of is said to be named Palmer Horseshoe but no nothing else. Any help will be appreciated.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 23, 2015 5:32:37 GMT -5
Hi cankpeopi,
it´s summertime and many members are on vacation. Kingsley will probably reply later, I´m not sure if he´s reading the boards at the moment.
Is your Amos Little the one who was photographed as a member of Buffalo Bill´s Wild West?
Best wishes
Dietmar
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Post by cankpeopi on Jul 23, 2015 9:57:05 GMT -5
Yes it is Dietmar. He is my paternal Great Grand Father. Any insight and answers will be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 23, 2015 11:00:27 GMT -5
Here is his portrait by Getrude Käsebier: Amos Little, a Sioux Indian from Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show (Library of Congress)
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Post by gregor on Jul 23, 2015 16:24:55 GMT -5
This is what I have on Amos Little (Oglala / it's little enough , but I think we have to be careful. There seem to have been more than one Amos Little on different Lakota Reservations. Amos Little / Oglala (1873 – aft. 1910) Ciqala Amos Little aka Iron Hawk was born about 1873. His father was Little (1849 – aft. 1895), his mother Yellow Elk (Hehaka Gi / (1867 – aft 1895). On October 11, 1901 Amos Little married the widow Lizzie Means (1863-?), daughter of Big Cheyenne (1864 - ?), at Wounded Knee, Pine Ridge. In the years about 1900 he performed with Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show as a Hoop dancer. With the Wild West Show he also went over to Europe. In 1898 or 1900 he was photographed by the famous photographer Gertrud Käsebier in New York. When John R. Brennan (1848-1919) was superintendent at Pine Ridge Indian School, from 1900 to 1917, Amos was employed as a laborer with a salary of $ 240 (List of persons employed in the Indian Agency Service on June 30,1903). Children: Wallace Little (1901 - 1984), who married about 1930 Millie Cuny (1911 -?) Amos’ siblings:Bear Robe / Mato Tasina (1876 – aft. 1895), sister Savior / Wanikinya (1882 – aft 1895), brother Holy Shirt / Ogle Wakan (1892 – aft 1895), brother White Cow / Ptesan (1894 – aft.1895), sister That's all. Are we discussing the same person? Toksha ake Gregor
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Post by cankpeopi on Jul 24, 2015 19:08:48 GMT -5
Yes Gregor this is the same Amos Little. I only know of one. Grandpa Amos. Lizzie Means maiden name is Post (Elizabeth Post) and she is Northern Cheyenne. Her Father is Colonal Jim Post (Royal Canadian I believe). Lizzy was married to Austin Means great grand father of Russell Means. Lizzy and Austin had children as well. Lizzy's mother is named Big Cheyenne Woman. Big Cheyenne Woman was also married to Joe Larrabe. Larrabee creek just south of Pine Ridge is named after him. So yeah same Amos Little. Yellow Elk is Amos step mother from what i know. She also went by Maud Little. Allotments of land near the Oglala Dam area on the Pine Ridge Reservation.
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Henri
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Post by Henri on Jul 26, 2015 3:52:30 GMT -5
Here is what I have in my file, Brave Bear (b.1832 ) married Looks Back (b.1844 ), they had 2 daughters, Medicine Takes ( b.1864 ) and Yellow Elk (b.1867 ) Both daughters married Little (b.1850 )Little and Medicine Takes had 3 children, Katie Little (b.1877) Amos Little (b.1878) and Miles Little (b.1882). Amos married, Lissie and May No Water. Little and Yellow Elk had 3 children too, Clarence Little(b.1892) White Cow (b.1894) and Claude Little (b.1898) Miles Little married Julia Slow Bull ( daughter of the Oglala Sitting Bull) and had one son, Thomas Little (b.1921)
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Henri
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Post by Henri on Jul 26, 2015 4:18:13 GMT -5
Amos Little and Lissie had one kid, Wallace Little (b.1901), he married Millie Cuny. Amos and May No Water had, Ernest Little (b.1929). Wallace and Millie had 3 children, Leroy (b.1931), Adele Angeline (b.1932) and Richard Theodore (b.1934) From a former mariage Amos had, Orville (b.1922), Nadine (b.1924) and Edsel (b.1926) Information came from LaDeane Miller, Families of Pine Ridge
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Post by cankpeopi on Jul 26, 2015 10:34:07 GMT -5
Great info and great leads. I heard the name medicine taker before, never verified it. Maybe it's another name to same woman who carries rattles aka walks fast. Miles little is Amos half brother. So yellow elk is the mother not medicine takes. Wallace little first married Wilhelmina collhoff and had Orville little, Eddie little sky, and Nadine little.
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Post by cankpeopi on Jul 26, 2015 20:35:25 GMT -5
Wanted to make these corrections earlier but was pressed for time and on a phone.....
As Stated above Grandpa Wallace Little and Wilhemena Collhoff had the children named Orville Little (Deceased), Nadine Little (Deceased) and Eddie Little (Deceased) (Little Sky is a name my Uncle Eddie used as an Actor in Hollywood but changed it later and used it as a legal name). Amos Little was Wilhemena Collhoffs' Father In Law, not Husband.
Amos Little/Charles Ironhawk/All Around Fat and Lizzy Post had the following children according to family knowledge: Wallace Edsel Little (b. 1901 d. 1984), My Paternal Grand Father.
Amos Little/Charles Ironhawk/All Around Fat and Mary No Water (AKA Emma No Water) had the Following children according to family knowledge: Lucille Little (b. circa 1930 d. 1996) Ernest Little (b. circa 1932 d. circa 1949).
Amos Little/Charles Ironhawk/All Around Fat and Mary Sitting Bull married but had no children, Mary was up in age and she also passed on about 2 and half years into the marriage from TB.
Wallace Little and Mildred Firethunder/Cuny (b. 1911 d. 1976) (Eddie Cuny and Angelique Firethunder are parents) had the following children; 1. Don Little (living), 2. Richard Theodore Little (Deceased), 3. Wayne "John Goose", Darrell Little (Deceased), 4. James Norman Little (Deceased), 5. Paul Little (Living), 6. Adele Little/Benson (Deceased), 7. Lorraine Little/ Peil (Deceased), 8. Robert "Capa Ciqala" Little (Deceased), 9. Wallace "Jun Hook" Little (Deceased), Lavonne Little (Deceased), 10. Mike Little (Living), 11. Ernest A Little (Living), 12. Helena "babe" Little (Living).
Wallace and Mildred also raised William Kills Enemy At Knight (Deceased) Williams father is Noah Kills Enemy At Knight and his Mother is Lucinda Iron Heart.
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