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Post by carlo on Mar 3, 2014 15:34:00 GMT -5
dT, it's interesting that you mention the Crows in your earlier post, as Looking Glass, the leader of the Alpowai band of Nimiipuu (Nez Perces), was one of the key trading partners with and friends to the Mountain Crows, and he regularly camped with them for long spells. His band also more than once fought alongside the Mountain Crows against Lakota raiders in the 1860s and '70s.
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Post by grahamew on Mar 3, 2014 16:05:16 GMT -5
Maybe that's it, cinema. I have to admit that I've searched through my books and articles and haven't been able to find the reference. I would suspect that on seeing Looking Glass' raised head, quite a few people shot at it and working out who hit it may be difficult!
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Post by cinemo on Mar 4, 2014 14:57:56 GMT -5
Hi, grahamew
the reference we can find in : Nez Perce Summer 1877: The U. S. Army and Nee-Me-Poo Crisis , by Jerome Greene ( page 473 )
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Post by dT on Mar 4, 2014 20:23:13 GMT -5
It's too bad that Looking Glass or White Bird didnt get Miles. That could have saved a lot of problems. As you can guess, I'm not a big fan of Miles.
dT
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Post by dT on Mar 4, 2014 20:27:59 GMT -5
carlo said ... "dT, it's interesting that you mention the Crows in your earlier post, as Looking Glass, the leader of the Alpowai band of Nimiipuu (Nez Perces), was one of the key trading partners with and friends to the Mountain Crows, and he regularly camped with them for long spells. His band also more than once fought alongside the Mountain Crows against Lakota raiders in the 1860s and '70s."
From what I understand, yes Looking Glass did know the Crows. And because of his trading, he knew routes to the east through the Bitterroot Mountains. So he chose this path for the escape of all the Nez Perce and he did remarkably well with the plan. As you said, the Nez Perce and the Crows were fighting the Dakotas, so they had an alliance. So I think Looking Glass must have felt badly let down when the Crows refused him refuge at a critical time during his escape from the US Cavalry. I don't know why this happened - but maybe there had been a change in leadership for the Crows and so their thinking was different.
dT
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Post by cinemo on Mar 8, 2014 6:43:47 GMT -5
Why was there no help by the Crows for the Nez Perces ?
On September 12, in 1877, the Nez Perces attempt to get support from their old friends the Crows, but the help was denied by the Crows.
At that time, the Crows were at friendly terms with the government and feared reprisals, if they would help the Nez Perces.
On October 5, in 1877, Col. Nelson Miles makes promises to neighbouring tribes ( especially to the Gros Ventres and Assiniboines ) making escape to Canada difficult.
„ The Assiniboines are killing the Nez Perces as I sent them word that they could fight any that escaped and take their arms and ponies.“ ( Col. N. Miles on October 14, )
cinemo
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Post by dT on Mar 8, 2014 9:42:04 GMT -5
It would be easy for us to look back and make a judgment against the Crows. But I think it would be too much judgment to rush into such a decision. we cannot guess exactly what was on their minds back then, or the difficulties that the Crows were facing themselves. I think very clearly that the Crows were worried that if they provided help to the Nez Perce, that their own land would be taken away. Perhaps they were even threatened in this way by someone representing (or claiming to represent) the US Government. In addition, the Crows were aware of a prophecy amongst their own people that the white man would be the winner of this struggle on the Great Plains, and therefore they did not follow the same policy of conflict as other tribes. Finally, as I said earlier - perhaps the Crow chiefs who knew Looking Glass well had since become old, and younger men were now making the decisions.
If Looking Glass had been making an escape with just the Nez Perce warriors, then I think they would have been able to handle this disappointment at the Crow Lands and still make Canada. If their band had consisted of just warriors - they would have had the strength and endurance to get through the ordeal. But to make such a long journey with all the Nez Perce people, including women and children, was an incredibly difficult task. They were coming under attack, forced to be on the run, and forced to gather whatever food could be found by the warriors - all while making an escape journey well over 1,000 miles. It was a tremendously difficult thing to try and accomplish. That is why I am saying that Looking Glass did SO WELL, even though he eventually was killed by the Cavalry. His accomplishments and courage were outstanding!!!
dT
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Post by cinemo on Mar 16, 2014 5:38:25 GMT -5
The Nez Perces and Lakota encounter in Canada
The Nez Perce had never been friends of the Lakota (Sioux). In fact, in the alliance of nations on the plains, the Nez Perce were friends of the Crows who were enemies of the Lakota. Doubtless, in aiding their friends the Crows more than one Nez Perce warrior had killed or been killed by a Lakota warrior. Upon their arrival, then, the Nez Perce were very unsure of the welcome they would receive from the Lakota...
White Bird did not know whether or not it would be safe for him to go to Sitting Buil's camp, but after a consultation with his followers they came to the conclusion they might as well be killed by Indian enemies as by the whites. Coming to a half-breed [Metis] camp near Milk River, they hired one of the party to guide them to Sitting Bull. As they were proceeding toward the Sioux camp they came upon an Indian skinning a buffalo. The hunter appeared rather shy, but after considerable parley told White Bird that he was a Sioux and that he had come from Sitting Bull's camp. White Bird told him to go to Sitting Bull and tell him the Nez Perces were anxious to see him; that they were refugees, fleeing for protection from the U.S. troops. The buffalo hunter started on his mission and the Nez Perces camp moved slowly in the direction he had gone. After marching a few miles, they discovered a large body of mounted Indians coming toward them. They numbered nearly 3,000 warriors and were coming at full speed. A short distance in advance of the main body rode an Indian warrior, on a magnificent war horse. When within hailing distance of the Nez Perces the command halted. The warrior in advance asked White Bird, by signs, to what tribe he belonged. White Bird made answer, saying he was a Nez Perces. The other then said.
"I am Sitting Bull, and these,' pointing to his followers, "are my warriors.' Sitting Bull then came up and shook hands with White Bird and his warriors. After bidding them welcome, he said: "I am very sorry indeed that your skin is like mine, that your hair is like mine, and that every one around you is pure red man like myself. We, too, have lost our country by falsehood and theft.'
Although the Indians were now north of the line ( borderline ), they expected to be followed and attacked by US. soldiers. The Sioux had not thus far been attacked, but they did not know now that so many soldiers were near them they would follow the Indians and give them battle. Sitting Bull, after hearing of the Bear Paw fight, said: "if I had known you were surrounded by soldiers at Bear Paw Mountains, I certainly would have helped you. But now you are here, and as long as you are with me I will not allow the Americans to take even a child from you without fighting for it.' Sitting Bull received a present of seven horses from White Bird. The Nez Perces were welcomed in the Sioux camp and received from Sitting Bull and his followers nothing but the kindest of treatment.
„ They ( Lakota ) gave me everything I asked, just as if I were one of their children.“ Yellow Wolf ( Nez Perce )
Duncan Mac Donald report
cinemo
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Post by dT on Mar 18, 2014 13:40:04 GMT -5
cinemo - VERY interesting story which I have never seen before. it goes to show how much things were changing in that time. it would be good to know what happened next. but apparently the decision was made for the Nez Perce to journey north and not stay any longer with the Crows or Lakotas. it also follows that the "standard information" that the Nez Perce were simply shunned, or turned down, by the Crows is probably not exactly right either. More likely all the tribes on the Great Plains were re-thinking their strategy and how best to deal with the white invasion. It was a time of confusion.
dT
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Canadian Cree
New Member
A Canadian Metis who has a great interest in all native people especially Lakota and Cree
Posts: 12
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Post by Canadian Cree on Jul 7, 2019 18:09:09 GMT -5
There are still members of White Birds band living in Canada west of the Blackfoot reservation, close to Brocket Alberta, they lived around Pincher Creek. There was a reunion of Nez Perce from the states and Canada in 1995 in Brocket Alberta.
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Canadian Cree
New Member
A Canadian Metis who has a great interest in all native people especially Lakota and Cree
Posts: 12
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Post by Canadian Cree on Jul 7, 2019 18:11:58 GMT -5
There are still members of White Birds band living in Canada west of the Blackfoot reservation, close to Brocket Alberta, they lived around Pincher Creek. There was a reunion of Nez Perce from the states and Canada in 1995 in Brocket Alberta.
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natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Jul 9, 2019 19:22:26 GMT -5
The Crow chief who refused the plea of Looking Glass is reported to have said "why would I shake hands with a man who has blood on them?" Keep in mind it was the Nez Perce who killed white settlers first. I'm sure the fact that helping the Nez Perce would stop the aid that the Crow were receiving was in the back of his mind too. Many Plains tribes knew about the Walla Walla murders and wanted to gain favors from the U. S. By stopping the Nez Perce. What those 3 young Nez Perce warriors did by killing the white settlers had consequences that reached far.
I doubt sitting bull had 3,000 warriors. Sitting Bulls band in Canada was starving year round. They did not receive And from Canadian Government and the land was not fertile. He could not feed 3,000 warriors. I doubt he had 30 warriors.
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Post by chicheman on Jul 10, 2019 5:51:55 GMT -5
Well, to be fair about the young Nez Perces who killed those white settlers, the Nez Perces had to endure a lot of injustices from the whites before it reached that point. More and more whites arriving in their lands and hunting grounds and the pressure of the government to give up their homeland, even though those non treaty bands didn´t sign anything, never wanted and did not agree to leave for a reservation. So certainly the Nez Perce had also some reason to finally react to those provocations. As to the number of Sitting Bull´s warriors, I don´t know without going back to sources, but I think he had several hundred of warriors available in the several Lakota camps in Canada. But sure the estimated number of 3000 might be much to high in my opinion. Good book about to read on the Nez Perce and Lakota in Canada is this one, as I find it very well researched and written :
Beyond Bear´s Paw: The Nez Perce Indians in Canada, by Jerome A. Greene
Greetings chicheman
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Post by Californian on Jul 20, 2019 20:26:34 GMT -5
thank you Chicheman - it is always good to look at historic events in the "big picture" context and not cherry-pick individual events. I totally concur that the Nez Perce people were pushed to a breaking point by the invaders and great injustice prevailed throughout, even though they tried for decades to accommodate themselves with the newcomers.
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Post by chicheman on Jul 25, 2019 11:26:38 GMT -5
thanks for your words Californian, yes the Nez Perce did keep good relations with the white people for decades, from first contact until the Nez Perce War, this is to admire. But finally it was enough and to much for them. Too bad that the story went as it did, many Nez Perce getting killed and wounded and finally the survivors losing their land and freedom during or after the war of 1877. But it´s great to learn that they survived and many aspects of their culture still going on. Here is a link that sounds interesting : www.nps.gov/nepe/index.htm
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