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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 7, 2011 7:06:51 GMT -5
Bonne Année, Happy New Year, Nuevo Año, Chuc Mung Nam Moi, etc... Hi, Based on the identification and the debates that happened of those identifications, I made this photo-montage of the Last Band of free Native Americans who fought USA. Those people are the all of them at their surrender at Skeleton Canyon. Attachments:
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Post by kayitah on Jan 7, 2011 9:42:16 GMT -5
Very interesting, especially the identification of Atelnietze/Adilnadzid. Could very well be him.
Very well done, even though there are a couple misidentifications. Your Tsinolthtos/Tissnolthos is in fact Kayitah, while the one identified as Moh-tsos is Tissnolthos. She-ga and Fun's wife are one and the same person, and I second that it could be Fun's wife.
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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 7, 2011 14:52:12 GMT -5
About Tsinolthtos, based on the photo of scouts when the Chiricahuas are prisonners (with Naiche, Mangas, Kaethenay) the man identified at Tsinolthtos seemed to be the man I identified on my photo-montage. About my identification of she-ga and Fun's Wife(?), Kayitah, you may be right that they seemed to be the same person. I forgot this, before : my identification of the train photo. Front Row : Yahe-chul (Fun), Perico, Naiche, Goyaklay (Geronimo), Chappo and Garditha. Second Row : Kanseah, Yanozha, Zhonne, Ahnandia, Moh-tsos (or Kilthdigai), Kilthdigai (or Moh-tsos), Hunlona, Nah-bay, Laziyah and Beshe. Women Row : Ha-o-zinne, Biya-neta, Tsinolthos Wife? and Leosanni. Attachments:
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Post by jeroen on Jan 8, 2011 7:29:27 GMT -5
Hey Coeurrouge,
Great idea to put all the info scattered over all these threads together here. I agree with most of your identifications for the train photo, but not quite. My guess, as posted earlier in the Geronimo thread:
front row: Fun, Perico, Naiche, Geronimo, Chapo, Garditha
back row: kanseah, Yahozha, Zhonne, Ahnandia, Tissnolthos, unknown, Hunlonah, Laziyah, Nahbay, Beshe
The unknown warrior is either Mohtsos or Kilthdigai, they were both estimated to be about 35 years old.
In some prints of the train photos another unidentified Apache can be seen behind the third window.
third row: Haozinne, Biyaneta, Nohchlon and Leosanni
As for the composite image, well done, although I agree with Kayitah with all corrections. I am pretty sure that the Nat cul baye id is correct, his wife was named Dejonah (and according to testimony of Kayitah and Martine, it was this courageous lady who went with Dahteste to talk with Mexican authorties in august 1886, rather than Lozen). She was likely among the small group that did not come in with Naiche and Geronimo.
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Post by jeroen on Jan 17, 2011 12:20:00 GMT -5
 The second version of the train photo... showing another Apache looking out of the window... perhaps She ga? |
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Post by perico on Jan 24, 2011 5:33:53 GMT -5
Maybe Shega. Shes never been identified.
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Post by jeroen on Jan 25, 2011 2:40:08 GMT -5
I know... Even though it is not so according to known/assumed history, I have always thought that somehow the woman photographed and known as Taz ay slath and Shega were actually one and the same... she looks so much like Yanozha and, as you know, Yanozha and Shega were brother and sister...
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Post by coeurrouge on Jan 29, 2011 5:52:24 GMT -5
I don't think so. She-ga was with Geronimo at his last surrender on september 1886. And The photo of Taz-ay-Slath was taken at fort Bowie after her capture on august 1885. She went to fort Marion with Chihuahua on april 1886.
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Post by ukapache4 on Jan 30, 2011 15:03:53 GMT -5
Could anyone post photos , if any exist, of the last band leaving fort Bowie or at the station prior to leaving for florida.
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Post by naiches2 on Feb 4, 2011 11:27:28 GMT -5
Geronimo's band leaving Fort Bowie for Florida, Arizona Territory by CS Fly.  |
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Post by ukapache4 on Feb 4, 2011 15:28:40 GMT -5
Many thanks, naiches , for posting the photo
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Post by naiches2 on Feb 4, 2011 15:49:47 GMT -5
I dont have better resolution, sorry  |
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Post by ukapache4 on Mar 10, 2011 11:07:26 GMT -5
Does anyone know who the last surviving member of the last band was, also what year did they die
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Post by jeroen on Mar 13, 2011 7:22:40 GMT -5
As far as I know, Jasper Kanseah was the last of the Naiche/Geronimo band to survive, passing away in 1959... but perhaps one of the women or children outlived him by a few years...
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Post by Second on Mar 13, 2011 13:38:16 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I just recvd an ISBN for my book and I have entered the last phase of publishing. My book is titled Second Jumper, searching for his bloodline. Written by Sigfried R. Second-Jumper.
It has taken me 5 yrs to write it. It starts out with the surrendering of the Chiricahuas and their journey to Florida as prisoners of war. While in Florida, my great grandparents were separated from the bulk of the Tribe and shipped to Cuba. An event witnessed by other prisoners, and recorded in their oral history and songs.
Also recorded and photographed by my family are my great grandparent’s arrival in Cuba, their struggles, sacrifices and accomplishments. Some of my great grandparent’s descendents began migrating to Florida, settling on the outskirts of the Florida Everglades. It was there that I discovered a Miccosukee Indian camp tucked deep in the swamps. Little did I know I was meeting the remnants of the only Unconquered Nation, The Florida Seminoles. In time I learned to master the art of breaking in horses, wrestling alligators, followed by 15 yrs of dancing and singing among them. These events were captured and will be shown with never before seen photographs.
Through their encouragement, I along with my family set out on a trip across country, in search of our long lost Apache relatives. A long journey that started in St. Augustine, FL, Oklahoma, Arizona, ended at the Mescalero Apache Reservation in NM. Upon arrival at Mescalero, I was welcomed and accepted by ex-prisoners of war, the Chiricahuas and ultimately my long lost relatives. Unaware of my past tribal history, I was inaugurated into the medicine circle as a singer for the Chiricahua Crown Dancers. It was there, that I have and continue to learn the traditional ways of the Chiricahuas. After many years of loosing members and traditions, we all decided to record and preserve our ways along with our daily activities for future generations. For the first time ever, the reader will enter into the sacred tepee of the Crown dancers and learned what takes place prior to ceremonies. All of it has been done with the consent of all members.
When the Seminoles learned that I was recording these stories, they asked me to include theirs as well. Some of these tales and photographs have been kept by members of both groups for decades as family treasures. I am honored to have been trusted to write them as they were told to me. All stories were reviewed by all participants prior to publishing to assure that they are told as they would want their great grandchildren to hear them.
Unlike many or most books written about these two groups, this one is done from within. As a result, the participants felt comfortable revealing stories long suppress by fear and mistrust. There is only half a page of references and over 300 pages of the real stories of the Tigers of the Human race, the Chiricahua Apaches and the Only Unconquered Nation, the Florida Seminoles.
I have dedicated my book to future Chiricahua and Seminole descendents but it really pertains to all humans as preserving their ancestral ways is just as important.
I will keep you all posted as soon as my book is available.
Sincerely,
Siggy Jumper
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