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Post by dT on Feb 16, 2012 15:25:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure why this is so sensitive.
Wife beating is hardly a problem confined to the Apache. Go back and look at he behavior of white society even just a few decades ago. Domestic violence was more accepted then, and occurred more than people like to admit. The big change in the role of women, also coinciding with women working and having the right to vote, is only a comparatively recent change.
I spend time helping indigenous peoples overseas - including Africa. Wife beating is so common there that it is difficult for women to gain any support about stopping it. Traditional households are still very oriented around the idea that the man is dominant, and womens issues are subservient. Domestic violence often feeds in this atmosphere.
There are certainly records that US Army personnel were unhappy about the way that Chiricahua warriors beat their wives on occasions - when on the reservation. This tells us that the beatings must have been pretty bad. Very likely alcohol did play a part in what was going on.
How much did it happen in traditional Apache life ... it's hard to say. But you can't rule it out. Violence was a part of the warrior ethic ... some of this probably spilled over to women and children. It doesn't mean that all men did this, but you can't assume it didn't go on.
dT
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Post by dT on Feb 17, 2012 12:29:50 GMT -5
I was thinking more about this subject ... and it occurred to me that the behavior of the Apaches is not so hard to understand.
Look at it this way. When did an Apache man leave home?? ... well sometimes to trade. But especially when he went on raids. And these raids could take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. During that time his wife and children were at home - and if the wife would be unfaithful then probably that is when a lot of issues would develop. So that unfaithfulness would cause anger in a warrior ... because he is away from camp fighting. Yet his wife sleeps with another man. And in addition, who is this other man? He is another Apache who did NOT go on the raid. So this man may be seen as less brave - yet he is sleeping with another's wife. Those are good grounds for a major fight, and probably for wife beating as well. So I am not defending the practice, but it can be understood in the proper context.
You can see exactly the same thing happen with US Army troops today. There have been several incidents of murders of unfaithful wives at Fort Bragg in North Carolina in the last few years - because fighting men came home and found that their wife had slept with another man. So it's a human thing.
There is one Apache custom that probably contributed to the perception of "wife abuse". That was the old custom that the husband of an unfaithful wife would cut off the end of her nose. I don't know the origin of that custom - but possibly this practice is what caused white men (especially Army men on the reservation) to think that the Indians were treating their wives in a terrible way. Once again, we could have more understanding if we knew the origin of the Apache custom.
dT
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Post by kayitah on Feb 17, 2012 14:25:09 GMT -5
Thank you all so much for your very interesting and valuable contributions.
All that has been written on these two pages makes sense. The loss of freedom and, even worse, the loss of family and friends in the many years of war with the U.S. and the mexican army, boredom on the rez, uncertainty about their future, fear, despair, being forced to give up their way of life, and many other factors must have caused unbearable stress, which then led to alcohol abuse. Not only by men, women did it too (for example Ahnandia's wife, who in the end didn't take proper care of their children, so the children lived with their grandmother who took good care of them, and Ahnandia left his wife).
We all know what alcohol abuse can do to one.
The Chiricahuas were always under the watchful eyes of the officers and agents, and whenever an incident of domestic violence occured, the latter had to take care of the matter. White settlers, on the other hand, had much more privacy, they weren't watched and whenever such things occured, it was bedind closed doors. The Chiricahuas were exposed, somewhat like... in today's Big Brother shows.
I don't think domestic violence was among themselves an accepted cultural trait. Loosing ground because the world around you is changing so fast certainly played a big part in it.
And I can also see what dt wrote in his last post, that men often were away for a longer period of time, during which a woman who was alone at home (and depending on the support and accomodation of men left in the camp) might after some time feel tempted to spend a night with one of those men.
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Post by Montolzh on Feb 17, 2012 19:59:51 GMT -5
I would like to contribute if I may, a little understanding of us indigenous peoples. Our physiology does not allow our bodies to process alcohol like white peoples, (not meaning to offend). Our kidneys and livers remove alcohol from our system very slowly, and is very easy to get drunk quickly. My grandmother was a very good Tiswin maker, but even good Tiswin isn't strong like commercial alcohol. Too many Ndee drink, and is killing us at alarming rate. That is the biggest problems when alcohol was obtained from Mexicans and Whites.
I think that a play on words here -- Wife beating is no more an Apache custom than is to anyone else. I guess we could say that anyone that beats his wife is his 'custom'. Very good analogy made by dt in that many service men return from long periods away and there are domestic problems.
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Post by marinajr on Feb 19, 2022 19:56:04 GMT -5
New to this forum and just making my way through the threads.. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth... I am Chiricahua and grew up on a reservation, and have been taught some of our cultures and traditions. In Apache culture the women are held in very high regard and are higher up in the "hierarchy" (so to speak) than men. I was taught that physical abuse as well as correction (spanking children) are not our traditional ways. They are learned behaviors. When my children were placed into their cradles I was instructed not to yell at or spank my children. So based on these teachings from my Apache elders I would say with great confidence that NO, "wife beating" is not/was not a custom. Please remember when you read books and studies ABOUT the Native Americans that we were absolutely not held in good light by the people who were making statements/judgements about us. In many of the historical documents I have read through the Apache particularly were drug through the dirt. The Apache were considered to be worthless and extremely unintelligent compared to other tribes. That is obviously not true when you take into account how resourceful, clever, etc. we are in everyday life, otherwise we would have died off long ago of our own accord. Don't want to get too off topic, just remember when researching to take it with a grain of salt.
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