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Post by jeroen on Jun 8, 2010 11:06:41 GMT -5
Thanks! I have seen the lady fourth from left usually identified as Haozinne, but, again I think she looks more like Eclahheh (see Randall photo of Naiche and wife).
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Post by perico on Jun 8, 2010 16:03:37 GMT -5
Thanks! I have seen the lady fourth from left usually identified as Haozinne, but, again I think she looks more like Eclahheh (see Randall photo of Naiche and wife). Me too!
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Post by naiches2 on Jun 8, 2010 22:25:38 GMT -5
That is incorrect, I am 100% positive this is "Old Man Dick" May be have anybody information about this man...
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Post by perico on Jun 9, 2010 8:50:07 GMT -5
That is incorrect, I am 100% positive this is "Old Man Dick" May be have anybody information about this man... Harold Dick - He was Nednai. Apache name was Nahn-tee-nesn. Wife was Nah-zhoo-un.
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Post by kayitah on Jun 10, 2010 3:23:01 GMT -5
Front row left is definately Biyaneta. 3rd from left is Dorothy Naiche, forth from left not sure if that is Haozinne or Eclahheh. Tall man in center is still being debated. Man with medicine hat on is Hustinney, boy on far right is identified wrong, that is Garditha. Man in very back row on left on horse is Hunlona. Man holding baby is Zhonne. The others I am unsure of. Thank you very much, Perico. I agree with you - but how did you identify Hustianney? I know I also came up with that name, but are you sure the man with the medicine cap is not Laziyah, as often stated? (I agree, though, that he doesn't really look like Laziyah on the train photo)
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Post by kayitah on Jun 10, 2010 3:57:12 GMT -5
Maybe we can identify them together... Attachments:
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Post by jeroen on Jun 10, 2010 8:12:26 GMT -5
You would expect Chihuahua to be in there as well...
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Post by jeroen on Jun 10, 2010 8:40:48 GMT -5
and this one of Naiche's and band:
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Post by kayitah on Jun 10, 2010 13:10:39 GMT -5
and this one of Naiche's and band: behind Fun is Chappo, and the man behind Naiché is barely visible, which makes an identification rather hard... I pass I think I have a better quality image of that photograph, I just have to search through my collection... I'll post it as soon as I find it.
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Post by naiches2 on Jun 10, 2010 14:20:33 GMT -5
and this one of Naiche's and band: behind Fun is Chappo, and the man behind Naiché is barely visible, which makes an identification rather hard... I pass I think I have a better quality image of that photograph, I just have to search through my collection... I'll post it as soon as I find it.
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Post by perico on Jun 11, 2010 8:03:07 GMT -5
and this one of Naiche's and band: behind Fun is Chappo, and the man behind Naiché is barely visible, which makes an identification rather hard... I pass I think I have a better quality image of that photograph, I just have to search through my collection... I'll post it as soon as I find it. Not convinced thats Beshe. Also the third boy from the right is Garditha.
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Post by perico on Jun 11, 2010 8:06:07 GMT -5
Front row left is definately Biyaneta. 3rd from left is Dorothy Naiche, forth from left not sure if that is Haozinne or Eclahheh. Tall man in center is still being debated. Man with medicine hat on is Hustinney, boy on far right is identified wrong, that is Garditha. Man in very back row on left on horse is Hunlona. Man holding baby is Zhonne. The others I am unsure of. Thank you very much, Perico. I agree with you - but how did you identify Hustianney? I know I also came up with that name, but are you sure the man with the medicine cap is not Laziyah, as often stated? (I agree, though, that he doesn't really look like Laziyah on the train photo) You are right, that is Laziyah. I wasnt paying attention.
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Post by shan on Jun 17, 2010 10:36:54 GMT -5
This question is directed at all you guys who contribute so much to this site and seem to be so knowlagble about these particular Indians.
I have just received a copy of Geronimos Surrender, the 1886, C.S Fly photographs by Jay van Orden, and in it the identification of several of the warriors is completely opposite to identifications I have always understood, not to mention most of the identifications I've seen on this site.
The most obvious difference is in what well maybe the most famous of the supposed surrender photographs, namely he one in which Geronimo and Natches are mounted, whilst the man I always understood to be Fun stands by Geronimo, and a man holding the baby stands at Natches side. The man I know as Fun he labels Tsisnah, the other man with the baby he calls Perico and says he is Geronimos son.
In the photo posted above by perico, the one with 3 young boys with guns as well as the warriors, he seems to name our mysterious warrior in white as Tissnolthos. and there is one interesting thing he says about the print of this photo, he says that in the full print, the 8''x10'' inch view, the rifle of another warrior sitting on the rock on the left hand side can be seen. Does anyone have the full print they can post? Oh and while I think of it, he also says that there is another, poorer version of the one in which Geronimo and Natches are mounted that never gets printed, has anyone got a print of that or ever come across that photo?
There are other various discrepancies in the names in a number of the photos but I'll give just one more, The photo which has Geronimo, and three warriors, all holding rifles staring into the camera, he names them from left to right as Yanozha, Chappo who he calls one of Geronimo's sons, and yet again he names the man I once though was Jolsanny as Fun. Healso says that Fun was Yanozha's brother. Now here's where I need some help. The man I have always thought was Jolsany you guys tell me is Tsisnah, is that right, and are Chappo and Perico both Geronimos sons?
Low Dog
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Post by jeroen on Jun 17, 2010 11:59:22 GMT -5
Hi Shan, I think Mr. Van Orden has made several errors in identifying the men in the Fly images. The man standing next to Naiche in the photo of Geronimo and Naiche on horseback is Fun, not Tsisnah. Also erico was related to Geronimo, but he was not a son. Next, the Tissnolthos identification is almost certainly not correct (compare with known id's in the Fort Houston group photos) I don't know of another version ( a poorer one) of the mounted Naiche and Geronimo image, but would love to see it! The Jolsany man you mean is in fact Tsisnah, I too long held him to be Ulzana's son, but with the Carlisle image of Tsisnah I am quite positive he is in fact Tsisnah. Chappo is without a doubt a son of Geronimo. The 8 x 10 image you mention, full length:
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Post by naiches2 on Jun 18, 2010 2:03:25 GMT -5
zoom Attachments:
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