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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 11, 2017 15:46:36 GMT -5
Chiricahua Apache women mexican prisoners at Guaymas (Sonora), 1882. Photographer: Alfredo Laurent. View AttachmentVery sad. Sitting second on right. Was she teh daughter of Loco who came back from Mexico with Huera? Ke-Nai-Didlq
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Post by coeurrouge on Aug 11, 2017 16:06:11 GMT -5
Tonse (Crawler), daughter of Geronimo and Chee-hash-Kish (wife of "Mike" Da-Ke-ya). I....Don't....Think....So!!!! For many years ALL have believed this young woman to be her, including experts and authors/writers (even Angie Debo). This young woman, like a few others whom took studio photos, doesn't even show up in the 2 known groups photos of captive Chiricahua woman and children in 1886. I don't know who she is....yet I do know she IS NOT....DOHN-SAY!!!! Note: The quote of the photographer Baker and Johnson states only Tonse (Crawler) a relative of Naiche. I read again and with better accurate. Tonse was not Dohnsay, Geronimo's daughter. On the picture posted by Mithlo it was written relative of Naiche in what way? and as her haircut she seemed married. Could it be with Shoei from Naiche's group ?
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Post by jasper4 on Sept 1, 2017 15:39:19 GMT -5
For the Valentin Day, a thought to the Apache lovers. To the warriors who took care and respected their wifes more than much of the white men (the civilized) of their at this time. And to the Apache women who endured the hard life in the mountain, especially on the 1880's, following their lover. This a photo of 2 women of Geronimo and Naiche's group at Fort Houston. I think they were Biyaneta and Haozinne, but I am not sure. found pic of pow at fort sam houston only thing you got them backwards. oh well the pic is on page 2
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Post by saskia21 on Nov 16, 2017 11:42:14 GMT -5
01) Zi-yeh (wife of Geronimo) 02) Fenton Geronimo (son of Zi-yeh and Geronimo) 03) Huera 04) Dohn-say (Daughter of Geronimo and wife of Mike Day-keya) 05) Nina Day-keya (Daughter of Dohn-say and Mike Day-keya) 06) Counteza (Possible Hulda Kinzhuna) 07) Ih-tedda (wife of Geronimo) 08) Four year old girl (Daughter of Geronimo and She-ga) 09) Unknown 10) Unknown 11) Unknown 12) Unknown 13) Unknown 14) Nah-zitz-ohn (wife of Mostos) 15) Jamie Holly (Ah-tay)(son of Mostos and Nah-zitz-ohn) 16) Hah-dun-key (wife of Perico) 17) Fredrick(?) Perico (Son of Perico and Han-dun-key) 18) Gozie (Ilth-gazie)(wife of Chihuahua) 19) Eugene Chihuahua 20) Tom Chihuahua 21) Tascenola 22) Nah-de-yole (wife of Naiche) 23) Paul Naiche (son of Naiche and Nah-de-yole) 24) Bah-nas-kli Naiche (son of Naiche and E-clah-heh) 25) Nah-zis-eh (Neschila)(wife of Jolsanny) 26) Adam Jolsanny 27) Tsalth-zay-nah-zizzy (neice of Neschila) NICE WORK TOO Mithlo ! Thanks a lot, it helps me on the 144 list. I still think n°9 was Na-dos-te just an idea. I change my mind and it was possible that N)10 was Bekiva, 10 years daughter of Stalosh and Dishtel I am quite sure that n°11 and 12 were Nezulkide's wife and child because when he died on june 1886 (3 months later) he had a wife and one year child. Nezulkide was the last to come back in San Carlos in 1884. When Geronimo and Naiche went away again on march 1886, he followed them. Why did he changed his mind? I think because his wife and chid were captured in august, 1885 during the attack by scouts of Geronimo and Mangas common camp. I am sure that n°13 was Loozah, wife of Tsinah, who would named Lucy Tsinah. It would explain too why Tsinah did not stay with his brothers Fun and Perico.
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Post by saskia21 on Nov 16, 2017 11:43:48 GMT -5
Does any on have the photo that goes with the numbering please? Thank you.
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Post by Ljt on Nov 14, 2018 4:40:31 GMT -5
So sad how the indigenous peoples were treated. Brings tears to my eyes. The same happened to my people in Australia.
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natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Nov 14, 2018 15:58:46 GMT -5
It pains my heart seeing the faces of these young babies, toddlers, and children, so innocent. Not given a chance to live. To experience life. To have children of their own. To accomplish things. It pains my heart more than I can express in words. These poor innocent children. I'm sorry. Im so sorry. RIP
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 1, 2019 16:08:54 GMT -5
Hi, These photos were taken in Mount Vernon (for sure the one with the older child). Is anyone able to identify these women, please? or had already done it in another thread? Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 4, 2019 14:51:14 GMT -5
I read again all we exchanged in this thread. In the discussion we concluded that these two women were different. On was Dohn-say, the daughter of Geronimo and the other was called Tonse, relative of Naiche; I think, Tonse was a different woman but was not a relative, in european relaatives' way. I think she was in fact the woman who married Seeltoe around 1884 and fled with in may 1885. She was captured in august 1885 during the attack on Geronimo and Mangus's camp. I think she was the unamed sister of Kayitah. Like his brother, she was Yanozah and She-ga's cousin, from Nednhi mothers' side. Naiche being a cousin of Yanozha by their fathers, it was why, the Americans did not understand well Chiricahua kinship, Tonse was described as a Naiche's relative. In the same idea I think Counteza was married (his hair dress was the one of a married woman) and with his husband when she was captured. And I think his husband was the Chokonen, Shoei. Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 24, 2019 8:07:41 GMT -5
I read again all we exchanged in this thread. In the discussion we concluded that these two women were different. On was Dohn-say, the daughter of Geronimo and the other was called Tonse, relative of Naiche; I think, Tonse was a different woman but was not a relative, in european relaatives' way. I think she was in fact the woman who married Seeltoe around 1884 and fled with in may 1885. She was captured in august 1885 during the attack on Geronimo and Mangus's camp. I think she was the unamed sister of Kayitah. Like his brother, she was Yanozah and She-ga's cousin, from Nednhi mothers' side. Naiche being a cousin of Yanozha by their fathers, it was why, the Americans did not understand well Chiricahua kinship, Tonse was described as a Naiche's relative. In the same idea I think Counteza was married (his hair dress was the one of a married woman) and with his husband when she was captured. And I think his husband was the Chokonen, Shoei. I change my mind about the husband of Counteza. She was captured while living with mangus and Geronimo on august 1885. Later when at Fort Marion she married Kinzhuna a brother of Kaathenay not also of Nezulkide, the first Chiricahua's POW to die in June 1886. Nezulkide was one of the outbreaker in May 1885, he followed Nana and Mangus. I am, now, quite sure, Counteza was the wife of Nezulkide and when Kinzhuna arrived in Florida on september 1886, respecting the old tradition Kinzhuna married his brother's widow.
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 16, 2020 12:02:07 GMT -5
is there somebody able to identify this woman? A randall's photo taken in 1884, called a chiricahua woman. Attachments:
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Post by mystic3334 on Mar 17, 2021 16:06:04 GMT -5
Hello, Wonderful Post. Is there anyway the images can be posted again as they are not able to view. Would like to match with a cabinet card. Wonderful post and research. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank You! Kind Regards, Mike
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Post by coeurrouge on Nov 17, 2021 13:58:23 GMT -5
Is there somebody able to identify this woman? apparently a chiricahua shot in 1884. Attachments:
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Post by Lynda Sanchez on Feb 7, 2022 16:03:35 GMT -5
Last month I presented a Zoom talk for the Old Pueblo Archaeology Center about how the Apache warriors told their side to Eve Ball. A couple of archive centers have decided to include that information of the youtube video in their Eve Ball files or files about the efficacy of oral history.
Should any of your archives or museums be interested you can Google Apache Warriors tell their side to Eve Ball by Lynda A. Sanchez
About 1,630,000 results (0.76 seconds) Search ResultsWeb results Apache Warriors Tell Their Side to Eve Ball, by Lynda A ...https://www.youtube.com › watch PREVIEW 1:30:15 Eve Ball (1890-1984) was a noted New Mexico chronicler of Apache, Anglo and Hispanic history. Obtaining ... YouTube · Old Pueblo Archaeology Center · 1 month ago
I am continually amazed at what she accomplished in the era before computers. Please let me know if you have any questions.
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