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Post by kayitah on Jun 26, 2010 3:29:17 GMT -5
from Dan Thrapp's "Encyclopedia of Frontier Biography" Attachments:
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Post by kayitah on Jun 26, 2010 3:33:25 GMT -5
I guess the following information (highlighted) would be very helpful in learning more about Dutchy... Attachments:
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Post by kayitah on Jun 26, 2010 3:40:28 GMT -5
Ba-keitz-ogie, the Yellow Coyote, by Baker & Johnston Attachments:
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Post by jeroen on Jun 26, 2010 11:51:16 GMT -5
Again, it is really hard to judge from such different photos, but I think you are right in reply 13, that both pictures show the same man, who is, in turn, not the same person as Ba keitz ogie(reply 17). But I am a bit confused, who then is Dutchy (the one who died in 1893)?
Also, the daughters of Cochise are identified with names like Bridget and Susan, which one was at one time Tom Chiricahua's wife? (By the way, the young woman left closely resembles Naiche)
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Post by kayitah on Jun 26, 2010 12:26:32 GMT -5
Jeroen, I think the identification on the Crook photograph is right in that it's Dutchy. His physical appearance seems fitting - rather short, stocky. What do you think about the last image I posted, is this the same man? Or could it be Chiricahua Tom?
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Post by jeroen on Jun 27, 2010 3:23:22 GMT -5
I agree that the identification in the Crook images is correct. As for your question regarding the last image you posted, I really can't tell... to me, he does not particularly look like Chiricahua Tom (the eyes seem different), but, of course, that in itself is not conclusive... If forced to make a choice, I would say he is a different person althogether...
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Post by jeroen on Jun 28, 2010 7:12:53 GMT -5
In his book on lieutenant Gatewood, Louis Kraft identies Dutchy as a White Mountain Apache, but he was in fact a Chiricahua, wasn't he?
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Post by perico on Jun 29, 2010 15:20:47 GMT -5
Left to right, the woman identified as Bridget and Susan are:
Naithlotonz and Dashdenzhoos. Daughters of Cochise Full blooded sisters, they were half sisters to Taza and Naiche. Naithlotonz married Fred Gokliz and after his death married Chiricahua Tom. Dashdenzhoos married Tim Kaydahzinne.
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Post by naiches2 on Jun 30, 2010 5:21:27 GMT -5
Left to right, the woman identified as Bridget and Susan are: Naithlotonz and Dashdenzhoos. Daughters of Cochise Full blooded sisters, they were half sisters to Taza and Naiche. Naithlotonz married Fred Gokliz and after his death married Chiricahua Tom. Dashdenzhoos married Tim Kaydahzinne. From Apache Voices: Their Stories of Survival as Told to Eve Ball p.62: Das-hdan-zhoos married Kedizhinne, one of Mangus's warriors (!), and their daughter was Lena Morgan. Naithlotonz married Gokli and, after his death, Chiricahua Tom.
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Post by jeroen on Jul 5, 2010 0:59:19 GMT -5
Just before meeting with general Miles, in early september 1886, Naiche was mourning for the loss of "a brother"... said to be a "fairly grown boy"... I don't know of any other brothers (exept Taza of course). Perhaps it was a cousin or another close relative... any ideas who this might be?
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Post by Montolzh on Feb 19, 2012 18:05:11 GMT -5
from Dan Thrapp's "Encyclopedia of Frontier Biography" Can anyone relate the incident surrounding Dutchy's death? States he was killed?
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Post by kayitah on Feb 26, 2012 8:24:17 GMT -5
Just before meeting with general Miles, in early september 1886, Naiche was mourning for the loss of "a brother"... said to be a "fairly grown boy"... I don't know of any other brothers (exept Taza of course). Perhaps it was a cousin or another close relative... any ideas who this might be? some time has passed, but I guess we can be sure that this "fairly grown brother" was the good-looking Adilnadzid... And he remains one of the most-fascinating characters... too bad there's not more information on him yet (or anyomore, with the people who knew him gone)...
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