Chato

[jeroen]

A nice image of Chatto and his wife Helen:

[sasja]

Another picture of Helen and Chato:

Attachments:

[jeroen]

Another one of Helen:

[dianec]

Feb 1, 2011 8:11:23 GMT -5 jeroen said:

Chatto in old age:

I've got to show this photo to my husband! The photo of Chatto
looks just like my husband's "Tio Chanto".
I have never seen such a great collection of Native photos like this!

[jasper4]

Martine and Kayitah, are the trajic figures at best chato is well known but was from a different clan as 'he who yawns was from the southern bands 'enemy people' as for debat of any who was traitor well again many Inde dont like one another back then even today, a very good read is 'I fought with Geronimo' by Jason Bintinez a first hand account where not much praise is put on geronimo. No matter the fact is the govt would have made the INDE POW anyway, even in OKLA towards the end of their lives stories are told where old feuds were put aside and all agreed that fighting the whites would have been better than living like a dam dog. The issue is all INDE were sent to fla and no matter who, when, where the whites are not be trusted by any Indian nation that is called history

[Montolzh]

Jan 2, 2012 17:42:29 GMT -5 jasper4 said:

Martine and Kayitah, are the trajic figures at best chato is well known but was from a different clan as 'he who yawns was from the southern bands 'enemy people' as for debat of any who was traitor well again many Inde dont like one another back then even today, a very good read is 'I fought with Geronimo' by Jason Bintinez a first hand account where not much praise is put on geronimo. No matter the fact is the govt would have made the INDE POW anyway, even in OKLA towards the end of their lives stories are told where old feuds were put aside and all agreed that fighting the whites would have been better than living like a dam dog. The issue is all INDE were sent to fla and no matter who, when, where the whites are not be trusted by any Indian nation that is called history

Not forget Dutchy, Noche and others who also were scouts treated same as rest of N'deh

[swa562]

Chato a Chief, Chiricahua Apache. It is noted that his band killed Judge McComas & Mrs. McComas in March 28, 1883 near Silver City, New Mexico and took six year old son, little Charley McComas as a prisoner. According to the A. Frank Randall collection at Huntington Library Pasadena, California.

Mickey Free and Lieutenant Davis reported to see the boy with the Chiricahuas. The Chiricahuas reported later that Charley McComas died in the winter in the Sierra Madres from sickness, caused by extreme cold. (Hayden files)

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[apacherose]

Apr 28, 2011 9:03:39 GMT -5 sasja said:

Another picture of Helen and Chato:

This is a beautiful picture of chatto and helen   Apache Summit Mescalero N.M

[apacherose]

May 13, 2011 1:20:26 GMT -5 dianec said:

Feb 1, 2011 8:11:23 GMT -5 jeroen said:

Chatto in old age:

I've got to show this photo to my husband! The photo of Chatto
looks just like my husband's "Tio Chanto".
I have never seen such a great collection of Native photos like this!

Helen chatto Was a Apache Burden basket maker you can see her in one of the pictures making a basket helen chatto's grand daughter  the late pauline kaydahzinne was also a basket maker  and to this day paulines daughter Andrea Kaydazhinne Summa still makes baskets to this date . The descendants of chatto still lives in Mescalero N.M with with the gifts of apache war  songs and prayers handed down from helen and chatto it is still strong and very much alive within there Descendants.

[kayitah]

Thank you for sharing this with us, apacherose

Accounts about Chato - his character, his influence, and his motivation for becoming Davis' friend and most-trusted scout - vary a great deal.

The only things that all sources seem to agree about are his courage and his skill as a tactician and raider.

I've been doing extensive research on this remarkable man. Yes, I think he's remarkable. Daklugie's and Kawaykla's colorful and hate-filled accounts may tell us otherwise but that's more due to their personal opionion than anything else. According to them, Chato was shunned by the other Chiricahuas. Eve Ball may have collected a lot of interesting firsthand information from her Apache informants but - since she relied heavily on Kawaykla, Daklugie and a few others - the picture we get is incomplete, one-sided, blurry, and needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Other sources claim that (after the Chiricahua moved to the Mescalero rez) he was respected and well-liked by both his own people and New Mexicans who knew him.

Silas Cochise to Edwin Sweeney, July 4, 1997:
"In 1997, Silas Cochise, a grandson of Naiche said that his mother, Amelia Naiche, had told him that Chatto and her father were close friends. He said this in response to my questioning the characterization of Chatto by Eve Ball's sources."

[dT]

Kayitah - I would welcome everything that you can share. There is tremendous value in studying any one of these people ... because YES in a way they were all remarkable. Or at least many were. Chato will always be seen as controversial, but this in no way detracts from his great skill and courage. There may also have been very personal reasons why he chose to go against Geronimo ... you should research this aspect. Maybe Geronimo and Chato had some kind of falling out, and it could have been over the simplest thing.

Remember the Apache code ... "Dont p*ss me off, because I will never forgive and NEVER FORGET!!"

dT

[dT]

Jasper4 said ...

"and all agreed that fighting the whites would have been better than living like a dam dog"

Yes, I understand. agreed.
But because of the enormous suffering and sacrifice made by the POW's in Florida and Oklahoma - many important bloodlines of the Nde were preserved. If they had fought on, all those bloodlines would have been destroyed. And the Chiricahua themselves would have been gone forever. So think about it - was the suffering and humiliation worth the preservation of Apache blood? I cannot answer this for you. I will leave you to think hard on this.

ONE thing I can tell you, though. Things are not over. The Circle of Life is still turning. What happened is not just history that was long ago and forgotten. It all has a meaning. Perhaps that meaning is not clear right now. But I believe that as time continues, everything will eventually have a clear meaning. Not one drop of blood that was spilled is forgotten by Usen. Not one tear that was shed is forgotten either. There will be a weighing up of all things.

In the mean time, a new ceremony is needed. It must come.

dT