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Post by jasper4 on Aug 16, 2013 10:48:06 GMT -5
I have now registered with this site. I am hoping that none of you think that a "crazy" has joined up. I actually had a past life regression in 2006 and I was Haozinne. Much more info for you if you are interested. crazy your not yet your assertion of past life of a Inde is WRONG. And thus believe what you will due to you are LOST within the world of LIES and EVIL for my Kin are in the spiritworld and do not come back nor any other gringo hocus pocus and that is the TRUTH
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Post by jasper4 on Aug 18, 2013 12:09:00 GMT -5
Naiche knew the white people did believe in ghosts. A white lady brought her little boy to him. He could not open his eyes. He was very sick... Naiche found that the little boy had been scared and that he could not open his eyes. Naiche prayed over him and sang a song. He sang two Apache songs before the child. For two nights he prayed and the fourth night the child spoke and opened his eyes and was alright after that. - Apache Elder and kin of the Nantan
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Post by Spirits west on May 2, 2014 22:57:31 GMT -5
I have followed these threads regarding apaches for a few months. I sure respect the passion and knowledge displayed here.
I live in southern Arizona and like to wander around here in Cochise County. A few years ago I became involved with a group from San Carlos and a man from the Chiricahua group in Mescalero. I have spent many hours listening to the things they have to say. On the subject of political factions and the sort or right and wrong about those that continued to fight and those, the majority that had quit fighting, I would like to comment. It seems to me that these people that make up the groups collectively have an ancient culture of individuality that runs as strong now as it ever did. My friend from San Carlos would come to the Dragoons and mostly sing songs to awaken the spirits of the land in this area. But by doing so, he becomes the target of others within his tribe who become worried that he and his group are trying to vie for more medicine or power in some way. What I am trying to say is that there does not seem to exist, nor does it ever seem to have existed, a unifying system of beliefs within any of these groups, they appear to me to be a very devicive group owiing to longstanding cultural identities. It is at the very heart of a nomadic lifestyle, and in some ways, seems to me anyway, to be the very essence of individual freedom. But that seems to have a price to be paid, as every endeavor has a price to be paid. All my friends are involved in the healing aspects of their culture. I am told that healing has a price that must be paid. It's a very long story to tell but in short, I had some challenges in life that were addressed by my friends from San Carlos and to some extent by my friend from Mescalero. The attention to me and the willingness to act on my behalf was truly precious to me. They were very canny in their ability to ascertain what was going on inside of me with very little input from me. They worked very hard to open up something inside of me that was closed for almost two decades. But they pay a price for acting on my behalf, not only in a cosmic sense but also from their fellow tribesmen that get riled up when someone leaves the reservation to work with non Indians. My friend from Mescalero told me that most Indians that seek power or medicine do so for the benefit of the group, but that some do not. It was his belief that Geronimo aquired his power for his own needs and desires to wage war. He told me that by doing do, the price he paid was the deaths of so many of his family members. I would like to mention something from my own perspective regarding the experience of being around the people I knew. There is without a doubt, a great many cultural differences between myself, a non indian, and the people I knew. Words, gestures, facial expressions, the way one carries himself, is looked at with much greater examination than when I am with my non indian culture. Four days with them is not like any four days I have spent among anyone else. Their willingness to share their beliefs with me is rather remarkable and fairly life changing to me. It seems to me that there still exists a strong sense if who they are and where they come from. I observed and was invited to join, in a great many little things and big things that form their cultural identity. I heard a lot of stories about plants, animals, the natural world and some things about the supernatural world. They deciphered some of the songs they knew and tried to teach me to sing them. I failed miserably. But they pointed out a man that was prominent in the singing and told me he was of mixed blood and did not grow up on a reservation and had not been around the apache language until he was an adult, yet he just seemed to know the songs. Thank you for listening.
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xframe
Junior Member
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Post by xframe on May 11, 2014 15:37:00 GMT -5
I have followed these threads regarding apaches for a few months. I sure respect the passion and knowledge displayed here. I live in southern Arizona and like to wander around here in Cochise County. A few years ago I became involved with a group from San Carlos and a man from the Chiricahua group in Mescalero. I have spent many hours listening to the things they have to say. On the subject of political factions and the sort or right and wrong about those that continued to fight and those, the majority that had quit fighting, I would like to comment. It seems to me that these people that make up the groups collectively have an ancient culture of individuality that runs as strong now as it ever did. My friend from San Carlos would come to the Dragoons and mostly sing songs to awaken the spirits of the land in this area. But by doing so, he becomes the target of others within his tribe who become worried that he and his group are trying to vie for more medicine or power in some way. What I am trying to say is that there does not seem to exist, nor does it ever seem to have existed, a unifying system of beliefs within any of these groups, they appear to me to be a very devicive group owiing to longstanding cultural identities. It is at the very heart of a nomadic lifestyle, and in some ways, seems to me anyway, to be the very essence of individual freedom. But that seems to have a price to be paid, as every endeavor has a price to be paid. All my friends are involved in the healing aspects of their culture. I am told that healing has a price that must be paid. It's a very long story to tell but in short, I had some challenges in life that were addressed by my friends from San Carlos and to some extent by my friend from Mescalero. The attention to me and the willingness to act on my behalf was truly precious to me. They were very canny in their ability to ascertain what was going on inside of me with very little input from me. They worked very hard to open up something inside of me that was closed for almost two decades. But they pay a price for acting on my behalf, not only in a cosmic sense but also from their fellow tribesmen that get riled up when someone leaves the reservation to work with non Indians. My friend from Mescalero told me that most Indians that seek power or medicine do so for the benefit of the group, but that some do not. It was his belief that Geronimo aquired his power for his own needs and desires to wage war. He told me that by doing do, the price he paid was the deaths of so many of his family members. I would like to mention something from my own perspective regarding the experience of being around the people I knew. There is without a doubt, a great many cultural differences between myself, a non indian, and the people I knew. Words, gestures, facial expressions, the way one carries himself, is looked at with much greater examination than when I am with my non indian culture. Four days with them is not like any four days I have spent among anyone else. Their willingness to share their beliefs with me is rather remarkable and fairly life changing to me. It seems to me that there still exists a strong sense if who they are and where they come from. I observed and was invited to join, in a great many little things and big things that form their cultural identity. I heard a lot of stories about plants, animals, the natural world and some things about the supernatural world. They deciphered some of the songs they knew and tried to teach me to sing them. I failed miserably. But they pointed out a man that was prominent in the singing and told me he was of mixed blood and did not grow up on a reservation and had not been around the apache language until he was an adult, yet he just seemed to know the songs. Thank you for listening. Haven't been here for a while and just recognized this post. Thanks for sharing this with us "Spirit West", very much appreciated!
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Post by kaleeah on Jul 7, 2014 11:04:48 GMT -5
WOULD THAT BE GERANIMO IN THE PHOTO OF CHIEF LOCO...BY BUD SHAPARD? white hat...black suit in back row..third from right.
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Post by kayitah on Jul 7, 2014 14:36:53 GMT -5
hi kaleeah, I guess you're referring to this photo... and yes, you're right, third from right is Geronimo The men are, in my opinion: front row, l-r: Kayitah, Chato, Loco, George Wratten, Nana, Becalthey (Bacuthla, Baculthin, Bay-kath-lay), either Martine or Zele IMO, Yahnozha back row, l-r: Coonie, Binday (Bendea), Fun, Chechil, Naiche, Geronimo, probably Tooisgah, Perico
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Post by dT on Jul 7, 2014 19:28:59 GMT -5
tribal divisions and politics have been the bane of existence for most Native American tribes, and are still very complicated on the rez today. Or at least, that's what some folks tell me :-) People are people no matter where you go, and disputes happen pretty frequently.
In addition as you say, the Chiricahua Nde were deeply divided and often separated into small bands during the Apache Wars. Rarely were they ever a united force - which of course was one main reason why they lost those wars so quickly. There seems to be something especially in the Apache character that people dont have a lot of give and take - they hold onto grudges for a very long time. However, in fairness it's not like other major tribes (like the Lakotas) havent seen their share of divisive politics :-)
As far as healing ceremonies go - i think it depends on your personal perception, how you want to use "healing", and how much you believe it will work. I mean, there certainly are some basic plants that can be used to promote healing, so natural remedies have worked for the Apaches (some better than others). Keep in mind that if the Nde healing arts were some kind of perfect magical formula, then the whole world would be using them!! But clearly there are many other tribes with their own religious and healing ceremonies, and in addition the majority of Apaches will still go to see a medical doctor if they have something serious. So I think you just have to stay balanced in your outlook - at least thats how I look at it.
As far as Geronimo goes ... I guess there are different points of view. The view you described is one point of view. I have often thought about whether he possessed any special "power". He may have believed it himself, and some folks may definitely believe it. But you could also argue that Geronimo was an exceptional fighter because he was quick, aggressive, very well coordinated and good on his feet, had tremendous endurance, and he knew the trails in Arizona and Mexico better than anybody else. So in other words, he was just an exceptional warrior and thats why he did all the great things he did. It just all depends on your point of view and how much you think the Spirit World affects daily life. I would say that Geronimo's biggest problem was that he dedicated himself completely to revenge - and he never let that go. How many people do you have to kill, before you are satisfied? Geronimo nursed the revenge inside of him, and I think it ate him up. Keep in mind that he did many ugly things in the name of revenge during those wars, and if any man did those things then it will deeply affect his conscience. I think that's why Geronimo was suffering badly from alcoholism towards the end of his life - he had a lot of memories of stuff that men just shouldnt see. Once again, it depends on how you see the Spirit World and how you believe it is connected to our normal world.
Thanks for your comments and I wish you the best of luck!
Pete (dT)
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Post by waganari on Oct 19, 2014 14:57:58 GMT -5
Caption reads: Naiche (Natches), son of Cohise. Hereditary chief of the Chiricahua Apaches. Naiche was Geronimo's lieutenant during the protracted wars in Arizona
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Post by waganari on Oct 19, 2014 16:41:41 GMT -5
And another one of Dorothy, his daughter
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Post by jasper4 on Oct 19, 2014 21:38:38 GMT -5
Naiche was Geronimo's lieutenant during the protracted wars in Arizona. He was Nantan(headman) of the group as Geronimo was the Diiyin(medicine person)
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Post by jasper4 on Oct 30, 2014 10:54:25 GMT -5
I have followed these threads regarding apaches for a few months. I sure respect the passion and knowledge displayed here. I live in southern Arizona and like to wander around here in Cochise County. A few years ago I became involved with a group from San Carlos and a man from the Chiricahua group in Mescalero. I have spent many hours listening to the things they have to say. On the subject of political factions and the sort or right and wrong about those that continued to fight and those, the majority that had quit fighting, I would like to comment. It seems to me that these people that make up the groups collectively have an ancient culture of individuality that runs as strong now as it ever did. My friend from San Carlos would come to the Dragoons and mostly sing songs to awaken the spirits of the land in this area. But by doing so, he becomes the target of others within his tribe who become worried that he and his group are trying to vie for more medicine or power in some way. What I am trying to say is that there does not seem to exist, nor does it ever seem to have existed, a unifying system of beliefs within any of these groups, they appear to me to be a very devicive group owiing to longstanding cultural identities. It is at the very heart of a nomadic lifestyle, and in some ways, seems to me anyway, to be the very essence of individual freedom. But that seems to have a price to be paid, as every endeavor has a price to be paid. All my friends are involved in the healing aspects of their culture. I am told that healing has a price that must be paid. It's a very long story to tell but in short, I had some challenges in life that were addressed by my friends from San Carlos and to some extent by my friend from Mescalero. The attention to me and the willingness to act on my behalf was truly precious to me. They were very canny in their ability to ascertain what was going on inside of me with very little input from me. They worked very hard to open up something inside of me that was closed for almost two decades. But they pay a price for acting on my behalf, not only in a cosmic sense but also from their fellow tribesmen that get riled up when someone leaves the reservation to work with non Indians. My friend from Mescalero told me that most Indians that seek power or medicine do so for the benefit of the group, but that some do not. It was his belief that Geronimo aquired his power for his own needs and desires to wage war. He told me that by doing do, the price he paid was the deaths of so many of his family members. I would like to mention something from my own perspective regarding the experience of being around the people I knew. There is without a doubt, a great many cultural differences between myself, a non indian, and the people I knew. Words, gestures, facial expressions, the way one carries himself, is looked at with much greater examination than when I am with my non indian culture. Four days with them is not like any four days I have spent among anyone else. Their willingness to share their beliefs with me is rather remarkable and fairly life changing to me. It seems to me that there still exists a strong sense if who they are and where they come from. I observed and was invited to join, in a great many little things and big things that form their cultural identity. I heard a lot of stories about plants, animals, the natural world and some things about the supernatural world. They deciphered some of the songs they knew and tried to teach me to sing them. I failed miserably. But they pointed out a man that was prominent in the singing and told me he was of mixed blood and did not grow up on a reservation and had not been around the apache language until he was an adult, yet he just seemed to know the songs. Thank you for listening. just say you have spoken well and the statement by you 'It seems to me that these people that make up the groups collectively have an ancient culture of individuality that runs as strong now as it ever did.' is the most insightful and enjoy your input. POWER comes to those whom seek it. Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1100/naiche-natchez?page=16#ixzz3He04h3Hm
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Post by Spirits West on Sept 9, 2016 0:05:20 GMT -5
Thank you dT and Jasper for your responses!
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Post by jeroen on Oct 17, 2017 12:05:45 GMT -5
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Post by coeurrouge on Apr 9, 2019 17:51:07 GMT -5
Hi, I try a biography of Naiche, step by step. My sources are differents books and the dialogues here. Some thoughts I will make, are maybe wrong but its will be suggestions to open discussion. I hope the readers will enjoy it.BIRTH 1. Historical context at Naiche’s birth.
• Mexico lost the Tejas Provincia in 1836. • The Texas republic integrated United States in 1845 which in comfort the Mexican Nation. • From 1846 to 1848, USA and Mexico were at war. Mexico lost this war and by the treaty of Guadalupe ceded California and New Mexico, except a band of territory south of the Gila River. • In 1853, on the Gadsden treaty, USA bought the lands south of the Gila River. Since then most of the Chiricahua country passed under USA jurisdiction.
2. Social Structure of the Chiricahua at Naiche’s birth.
Despite two and half decades of war with Mexico and heavy losses, the social structure of the tribe was maintained. The only chief recognized as a tribal leader was Kan-da-zis-tlishishen (Mangas Coloradas) but in decrease. To each Chiricahua the loyalty was in order, to his family, to the extended family, to the gota (local group) and in less strength to the band and the tribe. The tribe of Naiche was named Chiricahua by Americans. 2.1. The Northern and most bellicose band was the Bedonkohes which Kan-da-zis-tlishishen let his leadership but not his influence to younger leaders. This band was not ever under Mexican administration and I think this band was composed of three gotas. Two lived in the Mogollons, the one next of The White Mountain Apaches had as chief Chiva and Benito was a subchief (the two seemed to be White Mountain Apaches married in this local group). The second was leading by Cascos, the older son of Kan-da-zis-tlishishen, and Phalio Palacios (a Mangas’s brother) kept his influence. The third lived near the Gila springs and was smaller, I think. It was the former Mahko’s gota now under the leadership of Esquine and Goyakla (El Cautivo – Geronimo)
2.2. A mixed gota named Ne-be-ke-yen-de of Bedonkohe-Chihenne Chiricahua located along the Santa Lucia Springs, near Piños Altos, had as Chief Kan-da-zis-tlishishen and headman his younger brother whose nickname was José Mangas.
2.3. In the East lived the Chihennes, more peaceful, whom in oral stories all the other bands came from. As I understand three strong and a smaller gotas composed this band. One located on the most sacred land of the Chiricahua in Ojo Caliente. Jlin-tay-i-tith (Loco) became the chief after the tragic death of Ponce in 1854. The second living south of the previous in the Mimbres was leading by Baishan (Cuchillo Negro), the most prominent and peaceful Chihenne’s Chief. He could be a band chief but because of the great influence of Kan-da-zis-tlishishen among the Chihennes, he was not. His subchiefs were Riñon and Bi-duye (Victorio). The gota lived near Dzisl-ta-natal (Cook’s Peak) and had close relationship with the Mescalero Apaches. The chief was Tudeevia (Delgadito) successfully help by Kas-tziden (Nana). This gota was more distant with the Americans. The small gota living near the abandoned mines of Santa Rita Del Cobre had as chief Itàn.
2.4. The southern band was the most numerous but two decades of war with Mexico got heavy casualties in this band. It was the only band that was totally staid under Mexico’s jurisdiction. This band was the Nedni, divided in two divisions. The first division was the Gol-ga-enes, living in Chihuahua low lands near the village of Carrizal, their nickname was the Carrizalenos. If in the 1830’s there were two or three gotas, at Naiche’s birth, there was only one because of the constant war with Mexico. Their last headmen were Felipe and Cojinillin. The second division was the Nednhi whose the considered division Chief was Lacéres. Neighbors of the Janos village, they were called the Janeros. This division loved the Sierra Madre, their protector mountains. This division had two gotas. The Ned-nda-i gota had his territory in northwest of Chihuahua State and in part of southwest of New Mexico, this is why they were connected with the Chihennes. After the death of Soquilla and Colleto Amarillo, their actual chief was Tuscaze and his subchief Nolgee. Lacéres led the Haiahende gota who lived in northeast of Sonora state and had strong connection with the Chokonens. The subchiefs were the sons of Lacéres, Galindo the oldest and Tandinbilnojui (Juh) the youngest.
2.5. In the west, mostly which is now southern Arizona, lived the fourth band, the Chokonen. I think it was composed of five gotas. Near Dzisl-lnoi-bi-yi-tu (Stein’s Peak) lived one gota under the leadership of Esqualine. I think his subchiefs were the brothers Ulzanna and Kla-esch (Chihuahua), maybe his sons. Another nickname of Kla-esch was maybe also Remigio. Located in Tse-ga-ta-hen-de (Chiricahuas Mountains) this second gota was smaller. The chief was Yaque and his second Parte. Another gota, the southern one, lived near the four borders point (Arizona, Sonora, Chihuahua and New Mexico) in Pitaicache monts in Mexcio most of the time. Their chief was Colchòn from few years. Certainly the same size, the Dzil-dun-as-le-n gota lived in the dragoons mountains and was leading by Taces and the subchief Eskinya. The last, but as numerous than the one of Stein’s Peak, was the Cai-a-he-ne gota which rancheria camped near Nakibitci (Dos Cabezas Mountains). Their chief was Miguel Narbona if he was not dead yet he would die during the birth year of Naiche. The second was Goci (Cochise). Miguel Narbona and Esqualine shared the leadership of the band. The first was more bellicose than the second. But Goci emerged also as a band chief at Naiche’s birth.
3. Political relations between the Chiricahuas and their white neighbors at Naiche’s Birth.
After 250 years of Hispanic administration and military campaign on them, they changed of white jurisdiction and saw newcomers in their territory, mostly the Chihennes. First, they did not understand what happened, because a lot of their white neighbors were the same than before, Mexicans hatred enemy. And some Americans killed and scalped their people for the Mexico nation. But they learned quick as always and they finally understood that a new border separated their territory from Sonora and Chihuahua states, unless for the Nednis. And they realized that they could raid in Mexico letting their families safe in the now United States if they do not attack white settlers near their rancheria. But they put time to be convinced that the Americans were not like the Mexicans. In Mexico they could kill and steal in Sonora and sell in Chihuahua their bounty without problems. That was not the case if they raided in Mesilla and did business in Tucson after. They could be punished for that.
3.1. The newcomers: The White Eyes, the Americans.
The Chiricahuas, particularly the Chihennes and some Bedonkohes, met the first time an American representative, as General Kearny, in route to fight the Mexicans, in 1846. The principals chief Baishan and Kan-da-zis-tlishishen were impressed by the discipline and the arms of the thousand blue soldiers. After the Mexican War, the Americans came back with the boundary commissioner Bartlett’s expedition. The first encounters were not frequent but not friendly. Because the whites settled in Santa Rita Del Cobre. This place was a long time hispanic colony hatred by the Chiricahuas because it was the heart of their country and miners dogged the belly of the mother earth to become rich. And also, some little fights had occurred between Chihennes and soldiers with some dead each side. In 1852, Kan-da-zis-tlishishen signed the first treaty with USA at Acoma. It was a peace agreement between the Chiricahua and the US. This treaty allowed the US army to build military post on Chiricahua territory to protect a future south road from Texas to California. The Chiricahuas would receive annuities for that. But one article, that would be repeated in other agreements or treaties, would bring conflicts between US and Chiricahuas: This tribe had to stop attack Mexico. In June, 1855 most of the Chihenne’s Chief signed another treaty at Fort Thorn in the same way that Acoma’s treaty but the Chihennes sold some of their lands in exchange of annuities. Some Nednis signed the treaty but certainly because they were just there at this time. In the same year the doctor Steck was named Apache agent and took care of the Chihennes and of the Santa Lucia local group. I think this agent was the best the Chiricahuas had ever met. The Chokonens and a large part of the Bedonkohes avoided the white eyes. And the Nednis were living most of the time south of the border and never met the American officials. But at this time, there was no conflict between Chiricahuas and the White Eyes.
3.2. A total war with Mexico, especially the Sonoran’s.
After forty years of peace with some short periods of tension, war erupted in 1831 between all the Chiricahuas and Chihuahua and Sonora. Since then it wasn’t stop. There were some periods of truce, but short and always ended by betrayal from Mexico authorities. The two states applied scalp rewards at this time. Like said by Bud Shapard in his Loco’s book, why doing peace with Mexicans when the heavy casualties in this period were caused during truce periods. 1837, the Johnston slaughtered around 30 people (Chihennes and Nednis) among them it seemed two wives of Naiche’s maternal grandfather. 1844, near Corralitos and Janos, Sonoran’s soldiers killed eighty Chiricahuas, a lot of Nednis. July, 1846, under white flags, Chihuahua authorities with Kirker mercenaries organized a trap in Galeana in which 130 to 148 Chiricahuas were butchered (Chokonens, Nednis and Chihennes). Among the dead were certainly Naiche’s paternal grandparents, maybe the second spouse of his father with her children. After the last one under Miguel Narbona and Kan-da-zis-tlishishen led the Chiricahuas in a total war against Mexicans, especially in Sonora. They wiped the northern border of this state. In January 1851, the Chiricahua had known their biggest victory against whites at Pozo Hediondo doing around 80 casualties on Mexican side and where young leaders improved. But the same year,in march, Carrasco Sonoran soldiers massacred near Janos some 30 women and children while the warriors were doing business in the village. It was after this attack that Goyakla, losing his entire family, received his diyin by the Gan’s (Mountain’s spririts power). In the first mid 1850’s, the Chiricahuas controlled the northern border of Sonora at the exception of the cities. In may 27th, 1856, they destroyed the small village Chinapa. When the Chiricahuas wanted to discuss with Mexicans they did so at Fronteras for the Bedonkohes and the Chokonens; at Janos for the Nednis and the Chihennes.
4. Family of Naiche at his birth (my guess).
4.1. Gota’s Family.
Naiche was born during the year of 1856. His father was Goci and his mother Dos-the-seh. Together they had, at least another son, Taza, born circa 1840. Taza was just or would soon become a warrior. His father had another wife, maybe a Miguel Narbona’s daughter, from whom he could have already two girls. His father was around 45 years old and his mother 35-40 years old. In the gota, lived a 35 years old full sister of Goci. Her husband was the favorite warrior of Goci. They had at least one son born in 1848 and named Atelnietze. A full brother of Goci also lived in the gota, he was Kin-o-tera. He was fifteen years younger than Goci, but was his second and the two brothers were very close. His spouse was Yones and they had two children: one son, Chie, born circa 1850 and a daughter few years after. As first cousin living in the same gota, Atelnietze, Chie and Naiche would be very close and call each other “brother”.
4.2. Extended family.
The grandfathers were two tribal Chiefs. His paternal was Pisago Cabezòn, a Chokonen band chief between 1805 and 1825 and after considered as a tribal chief until 1840’s. Another full brother of Goci, named Juan and born circa 1815, was living in his wife family with the Nednis, I think. He had at least two children a daughter named She-ga, 6 years old and Yahnozah little older than Naiche. His maternal grandparents were still alive in 1856. They were Kan-da-zis-tlishishen and Tu-es-seh. His grandfather was 65 years old and his grandmother 50-55 years old. The full brothers of Naiche’s mother seemed to be Cascos, Seth-mooda and Salvadora, the last two living with the Chihennes. A half-brother of Dos-teh-seh was ten years older than Naiche, his nickname would be Mangus. Two years before Naiche arrived, José Mangas (Kan-da-zis-tlishishen’s brother) had a new son,with a Chokonen woman, named Pedes-kinjle (Chatto).
NEXT : The first 5 years.
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 11, 2019 16:42:03 GMT -5
wow amazing detail on the Chiricahua gota (bands and sub-bands) and their leading families. Thanks couerrouge
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