|
|
Post by pullingup on Aug 1, 2012 18:06:34 GMT -5
I'd like to know more from Gregor about the progressive faction and the traditional faction and their not always being on good terms. I wonder about the source of that information.
|
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Aug 2, 2012 13:18:27 GMT -5
Yeah, that's a vested question. I read it somewhere and have to check my sources. I'll come back later.
|
|
|
|
Post by jasper4 on Aug 4, 2012 14:34:53 GMT -5
I know alot of things, don't hesitate to ask. OK! Who is Tooisgah? Who is Colle? Binday? Negoltisin? And why Old Coonie took two orphants Johlsanny (Ulzana) children - Richard and Samuel?  And as the name of this mystical person???  kin to duncan balachu great warrior in his own right and mithlo knows I bet |
|
|
|
Post by jasper4 on Aug 4, 2012 16:43:47 GMT -5
I start this thread with the best known pictures of Naiche (sometimes also spelled Natchez), son of Cochise and grandson of Mangas Coloradas, taken by photographer Frank A. Randall in 1886:  Naiche by Frank A. Randall, 1886 (*SIRIS)  Naiche & his wife Ha-o-zinne (*SIRIS)  Naiche & his wife Ha-o-zinne (*SIRIS)  Naiche I also have a full view version of the photo Jeroen posted in the Geronimo thread. Unfortunately there is no information about the photographer or the date:   (posted originally by Jeroen) example of Naiche and how he does look like the great Nantan who many think was the greatest Nantan of the Nde, Yet Hardwood always paid respect to his mentor and father n law "He who sits there" |
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Aug 5, 2012 7:05:11 GMT -5
Hi pullingup,
I owe you an answer. It seems that I mixed up differences between Chiricahuas and Mescaleros (after 1913) with political differences among the Chiricahua. What I meant to say - as you may have noticed English is not my native language – is, that there were two different political factions within the Chiricahua and hostility between individuals of the Chiricahua.
Otherwise - for instance - I cannot explain remarks by Sam Kenoi, who told Morris Opler (see the book of Sonnichsen)
"Geronimo was nothing but the same kind of man, an old troublemaker He was a shaman He was as cowardly as a coyote.. " or
"Naiche what one of the sub-chiefs under Geronimo. Naiche was a good man in some ways, but you could not civilize him. He liked his Indian dancing, and he liked his fighting, and he liked his drinking."
I’m sure there were strong differences and feelings between the San Carlos faction and the so called “Renegade Apaches” (Geronimos & Naiches group). The San Carlos group always blamed Geronimo for the deportation to Florida. On the other hand men like Chato or Coonie were ostracized by the renegades for working with Crook and Miles.
That does not mean that one group was better than the other. The situation back then was very difficult and each family was fighting for survival. But my sympathy goes clearly to Geronimo and Naiche.
And these are my sources
Ball, Eve --> Indeh, an Apache Odyssey, (e.g.) p. 281 f
Debo, Angie --> Geronimo: The Man, His Time, His Place, (e.g.) p. 445 f.
Sonnichsen, C.L. --> Geronimo and the End of the Apache wars, (e.g.) p. 71 f.
Stockel, Henrietta --> Shame and Endurance: The Untold Story of the Chiricahua Apache Prisoners of War, see chapter: Starting over, p.135 f.
Stockel --> Geronimo's Kids: A Teacher's Lessons on the Apache Reservation, Notes, S. 136 f.
Stockel --> Women Of The Apache Nation: Voices Of Truth
Stockel --> On the Bloody Road to Jesus: Christianity and the Chiricahua Apaches
That's all for now. Cu Gregor
|
|
|
|
Post by jasper4 on Aug 9, 2012 8:53:01 GMT -5
Food for thought on what many have written about or on the topic of the rift between certain bands of the NDE. No volumes of written books are conjecture by whoever will realize the rift why it is personal. Families separted by different mindsets and or loyaly to certain Nantans again their are no chiefs that is a gringo term. Thus the assertion of subchief under Geronimo is absurd or maybe miscontrued by any. The fact of the matter are thus the acts of a few caused All to be rounded up and spend 28 years as POWs and the children stolen and sent away from their parents and as many see it the actions of he who yawns and Naiche and the broncos caused all but most see the truth that no matter the actions of the few the govt had already made its mind that all would suffer due to the way of the whites is there is no right way with them and 500 years of history proves, thus yall go ahead and research it, but I have kin on both sides of this rift and that also is history
|
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Aug 15, 2012 14:46:12 GMT -5
Hi pullingup,
with regard to the two chiricahua factions, maybe this is the strongest source:
Wolves for the Blue Soldiers: Indian Scouts and Auxiliaries with the US Army..., by Thomas W. Dunlay, University of Nebraska Press, 1987, page 176 ff.
Greetings from germany
Gregor
|
|
|
|
Post by kayitah on Apr 8, 2013 14:06:28 GMT -5
hmm... gandalf, what did you want to tell us? Unfortunately, only the quotes are visible... (at least to me)
|
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Apr 8, 2013 15:19:59 GMT -5
Sorry guys, but I think this Gandalf is a troll.
I deleted his posts.
|
|
|
|
Post by kayitah on Apr 8, 2013 17:20:39 GMT -5
Too bad, I thought we might get a new member in him  |
|
|
|
Post by naiches2 on Apr 25, 2013 14:49:20 GMT -5
New image of Naiche in regimentals Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by jeroen on Apr 25, 2013 15:16:11 GMT -5
Great image Naiches! I'd say Fort Sill, 1910's, but do you know exactly were and when this picture was taken?
|
|
|
|
Post by naiches2 on Apr 26, 2013 1:30:11 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Averil on Aug 13, 2013 19:43:00 GMT -5
Do any of you believe in reincarnation?
|
|
|
|
Post by averilpeaceelaziz on Aug 13, 2013 20:09:13 GMT -5
I have now registered with this site. I am hoping that none of you think that a "crazy" has joined up. I actually had a past life regression in 2006 and I was Haozinne. Much more info for you if you are interested.
|
|
