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Post by kingsleybray on Oct 4, 2010 3:14:12 GMT -5
jeroen, thanks for this breakdown of Mescalero bands. I had not seen such a detailed list til now.
Kingsley
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Post by grahamew on Oct 5, 2010 12:53:59 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on Feb 7, 2011 3:14:58 GMT -5
chief San Juan and Mescalero men:  |
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Post by kayitah on Feb 15, 2011 11:54:00 GMT -5
unfortunately, I can't recall where I found this image, but it's a variant of the already known photo of the same persons. Front center is Domingo. Attachments:
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sasja
New Member
Posts: 42
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Post by sasja on Feb 19, 2011 11:04:34 GMT -5
Amazing images and good info! Here's another one, said to be Ih Tedda, Geronimo's Mescalero wife, the baby on her lap would be their son Robert... Can anybody confirm this?  Just wondered how you acquired this photo , I have never come across this one and if it is Ih-tedda, and her son Robert, then the little girl on the right would seem to be Lenna who should be about 3 years older then Robert. Wish some one could confirm this is her... |
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Post by jeroen on Feb 21, 2011 10:26:01 GMT -5
I am almost certain it is her, this woman is identified as Ih Tedda in Eve Ball's Indeh and the image is also published in a small booklet here in Holland which includes part of the photographic collection now in the Museum of Ethnography.
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Post by kayitah on Feb 21, 2011 11:36:08 GMT -5
Cadete, Apache name is Gian-na-tah, Mescalero chief Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Feb 21, 2011 16:07:31 GMT -5
Mescalero Apaches at Ruidoso, NM. Ca. 1888 Attachments:
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Post by jeroen on Feb 23, 2011 3:10:23 GMT -5
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Post by Second on Mar 13, 2011 13:35:16 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I just recvd an ISBN for my book and I have entered the last phase of publishing. My book is titled Second Jumper, searching for his bloodline. Written by Sigfried R. Second-Jumper.
It has taken me 5 yrs to write it. It starts out with the surrendering of the Chiricahuas and their journey to Florida as prisoners of war. While in Florida, my great grandparents were separated from the bulk of the Tribe and shipped to Cuba. An event witnessed by other prisoners, and recorded in their oral history and songs.
Also recorded and photographed by my family are my great grandparent’s arrival in Cuba, their struggles, sacrifices and accomplishments. Some of my great grandparent’s descendents began migrating to Florida, settling on the outskirts of the Florida Everglades. It was there that I discovered a Miccosukee Indian camp tucked deep in the swamps. Little did I know I was meeting the remnants of the only Unconquered Nation, The Florida Seminoles. In time I learned to master the art of breaking in horses, wrestling alligators, followed by 15 yrs of dancing and singing among them. These events were captured and will be shown with never before seen photographs.
Through their encouragement, I along with my family set out on a trip across country, in search of our long lost Apache relatives. A long journey that started in St. Augustine, FL, Oklahoma, Arizona, ended at the Mescalero Apache Reservation in NM. Upon arrival at Mescalero, I was welcomed and accepted by ex-prisoners of war, the Chiricahuas and ultimately my long lost relatives. Unaware of my past tribal history, I was inaugurated into the medicine circle as a singer for the Chiricahua Crown Dancers. It was there, that I have and continue to learn the traditional ways of the Chiricahuas. After many years of loosing members and traditions, we all decided to record and preserve our ways along with our daily activities for future generations. For the first time ever, the reader will enter into the sacred tepee of the Crown dancers and learned what takes place prior to ceremonies. All of it has been done with the consent of all members.
When the Seminoles learned that I was recording these stories, they asked me to include theirs as well. Some of these tales and photographs have been kept by members of both groups for decades as family treasures. I am honored to have been trusted to write them as they were told to me. All stories were reviewed by all participants prior to publishing to assure that they are told as they would want their great grandchildren to hear them.
Unlike many or most books written about these two groups, this one is done from within. As a result, the participants felt comfortable revealing stories long suppress by fear and mistrust. There is only half a page of references and over 300 pages of the real stories of the Tigers of the Human race, the Chiricahua Apaches and the Only Unconquered Nation, the Florida Seminoles.
I have dedicated my book to future Chiricahua and Seminole descendents but it really pertains to all humans as preserving their ancestral ways is just as important.
I will keep you all posted as soon as my book is available.
Sincerely,
Siggy Jumper
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Post by jeroen on May 11, 2011 11:54:45 GMT -5
I have this one identified as Ignacio and son, Mescalero Apache, a photograph taken by Ben Wittick in 1883:  |
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Post by gregor on Jul 19, 2011 15:09:50 GMT -5
I am almost certain it is her, this woman is identified as Ih Tedda in Eve Ball's Indeh and the image is also published in a small booklet here in Holland which includes part of the photographic collection now in the Museum of Ethnography. Hi Jeroen, for a long time I believed and hoped that this woman could be Ih-Tedda. And I've relied also on Eve Ball as an authority (she used Photo No. 5, see below). In recent weeks and months I did a lot of research in terms of Geronimo and family. With regard to Ih-Tedda i searched also for photographs and came across the photos of the Smithsonian Institution / SIRIS and examined them by comparing the pix with other photographs. Of this woman, which is described by Ball as Ih Tedda, there are a total of 5 shots in one session at SIRIS , see here:  SIRIS calls the recording date sometimes 1886, sometimes 1888. Once she is called a Mescalero, than again a Chiricahua . While I was researching things with regard to Ih-Tedda I found the following picture of Chief Nautzili at SIRIS:  On the back of this photo is written (analogously) "This photo was published on 29 May 1886 as a woodcut in Harper's Weekly." The photographer Randall used the same backdrop on both photos , so we may assume that they were taken about the same time. Ih-Tedda was kidnapped by Geronimo about 1885 and in1889 he pushed her (in Mount Vernon) to join the released Mescaleros. Robert Geronimo was born early 1890, so the photo of Ih-Tedda and kids must have been shot in the middle of 1890 (I estimate the boy is about 6 to 8 months old). I have found no pictures of Randall in 1890 or later, using the above backdrop. All photos with this back drop date from around 1885/86. For this reason, I do not think it is Ih-Tedda. Certainly it was an important woman, otherwise Randall would have not taken the time to shoot the above series. Maybe it was a woman of Nautzili or San Juan? What do you think? Greetings Gregor |
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Post by jeroen on Jul 25, 2011 3:32:15 GMT -5
Hello Gregor,
It seems that Eve Ball's work, valuable as it still is, must be read with caution. I think you are right in stating it is probably not Ih Tedda. In fact, it is almost certainly not her. In his article "Capturing the Apaches; the photographs of Frank Randall", historian Allan Radbourne says Randall moved to New Mexico in 1885 (when he had already photographed many of the Chiricahua leaders) and started making pictures of Mescalero and Jicarilla Apaches, including Nautzili and others... and all against the same backdrop. When Naiche and Geronimo surrendered in early september 1886, he went to Bowie and photographed them and their people before being banished to Florida. Randall then continued to make photographs in and around San Carlos (including the one of Beitero known as the Victorio portrait) and he then moved to California (in1888). Since, as you correctly say, Ih Tedda returned to Mescalero after that, in 1889, it cannot be her... unfortunately.
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Post by gregor on Aug 2, 2011 15:58:31 GMT -5
Hi everybody, lately I came across "The Desert Magazine" (June 1945), which contained an article "Uncle Kit, Frontiersman" by Georgia B. Redfield. Redfield writes about a visit to William Kit Carson of Roswell, New Mexico and - that's the clou - a visit to "Old Kate Geronimo"! www.scribd.com/doc/2149582/194506-Desert-Magazine-1945-June But that's not all - she shows a photograph of Kate Geronimo / Cross Eyes and if it is real - of Ih-Tedda!!  According to Redfield she was nearly blind (she must have been about 75 years). Of course we can't be sure that she is Ih-Tedda, but we have a chance. There exist 7 photographs at SIRIS with the caption"Hospital-Mescalero reservation" (Neg. / Local Numbers: NAA INV 10000785 --> NAA INV 10000792). The pix are described as follows: " Elderly lady being held up in bed by nurse is Katie Cross Eyes--second wife of Geronimo". Has ANYBODY one of this photographs? What do you think about the above photo? Greetings from Germany Gregor |
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Post by kayitah on Aug 3, 2011 0:46:24 GMT -5
Well, if it's Katie Cross Eyes it must be Ih-tedda, since that's what she was called as an old woman. I don't think there's another woman with that same name. At the same time, she must have been well known at Mescalero, which leads me to think that a misidentification is rather unlikely.
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