xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on Feb 20, 2011 16:04:19 GMT -5
I am with Naiches on this one, don't think it is Yanozha... Can you please explain a bit what makes you think like that?? Which features do you think are not matching? Because I believe it's quite obvious that it is him! How do you explain that he is wearing "EXACTLY" the same bracelet in the different pictures? And on top he looks quite similar to Yahnozah anyway. I think in combination the coincidence is so strong that you need good arguments to doubt. Just to turn the table here Cheers -Frank-
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Post by jeroen on Feb 21, 2011 10:02:43 GMT -5
Sure, I simply don't see the resemblance like you do, the mouth does look similar, but the eyes are different, particularly if you compare with the close up of Yanozha taken at Fort Sill (see Naiche thread). Also, the facial painting is more common with Western Apaches, especially San Carlos and Western White Mountain groups... all of which, of course in itself is no conclusive evidence, but does leave room for doubt. As for the same bracelet, in my opinion, that does not necessarily mean it must be Yanozha... jewelry, like clothing, is not unique; it could have been taken in battle, acquired in trade or by gambling, or simply bought at a trader's store... popular items were brought in signifcant quantities. So, I think we have to agree to disagree on this one...
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Post by Second on Feb 22, 2011 11:34:57 GMT -5
Hello Kayitah, On the picture of Jolsanny, the man on the right with boy holding bow and arrow next to him, is Jolsanny next to his newphew ten year old Eugene Chihuahua at Fort Marion.
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Post by kayitah on Feb 22, 2011 12:41:31 GMT -5
Hello Kayitah, On the picture of Jolsanny, the man on the right with boy holding bow and arrow next to him, is Jolsanny next to his newphew ten year old Eugene Chihuahua at Fort Marion. Thank you for the info, Second! Unfortunately, I don't know which image you mean...
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Post by jeroen on Feb 24, 2011 2:46:30 GMT -5
I think the first image shows Bonito's son with his wife, don't know who the men in the second image are, but they are said to be Chiricahua...
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 24, 2011 13:26:24 GMT -5
here's the complete image. now that's a tough one... can't say I agree, neither can I say that I completely disagree... I see the resemblance around mouth and nose, but it seems that Yanozha has different features around the chin... To know, if he is Yanozha, we have to compare, down of the right eye. For the unknown man (or the man we are disagree) there is a dot on the down eyelip. The resolution of the photo I get of Yanozha do not allow to compare and answer.
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 24, 2011 13:30:00 GMT -5
I think the first image shows Bonito's son with his wife, don't know who the men in the second image are, but they are said to be Chiricahua... it seems that the man sitting looks like one of the Chihuahua warrios, the man with hands in the pants'pocket. No... Attachments:
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Post by kayitah on Feb 24, 2011 17:47:25 GMT -5
I think the first image shows Bonito's son with his wife, don't know who the men in the second image are, but they are said to be Chiricahua... it seems that the man sitting looks like one of the Chihuahua warrios, the man with hands in the pants'pocket. No... Hmm I don't think they resemble each other at all...
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Post by jeroen on Feb 25, 2011 10:02:51 GMT -5
Me neither... Found this Carlisle portrait of Talbot Gooday:
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Post by kayitah on Feb 25, 2011 17:26:05 GMT -5
I still think the man who's sitting could be Fun. Not that I say I'm convinced, but they resemble each other very much. Attachments:
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xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on Feb 25, 2011 19:49:51 GMT -5
I couldn't find the post anymore, but someone already made a list of known individuals of Naiché's and Geronimo's group. Here's an updated list without the women. Maybe we can add more men to the list and afterwards maybe make the same with the women. Agree with Naiches2 - fantastic work Kayitah- thank you very much for this
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xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on Feb 25, 2011 19:56:18 GMT -5
I still think the man who's sitting could be Fun. Not that I say I'm convinced, but they resemble each other very much. Do you have a full body shoot of the very left one? Fun has slightly bandy legs wich you can see especially on the pic were he is together with Geronimo (mounted). Especially the left leg is very characteristic. The leg of the man sitting on the chair seems to be similar...but maybe we can compare it a lot better with a complete pic of the one above
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Post by kayitah on Feb 26, 2011 5:48:59 GMT -5
here's the full photograph Attachments:
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Post by jeroen on Feb 26, 2011 6:41:31 GMT -5
The eyes, cheeks, mouth and even the hair falling from under the headband... and the left leg... it may well be Fun... if so, it would be even more interesting to know who the other, older man is...
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xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on Feb 26, 2011 6:41:43 GMT -5
here's the full photograph Ahhh great.. here we go, unfortunately the knees are a bit hidden, but the anatomy of the legs seems to match. I also think many face features matching, but I won't state a 100% - most likely though
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