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Post by coeurrouge on Dec 4, 2012 15:37:14 GMT -5
Yesterday I found this image of Hosea with an interesting description to it... Geronimo's "Lieutenant"... I have seem the image before but never knew anything more about him than him being a chief or at least a leader. Of course, the description could be wrong, but assuming it is true, who could this man be? Hosea may be another form of José... Contrary, vintagephoto.com's descriptin to this photo reads "Outdoor studio portrait of Apache Chief Hosea, at the San Carlos Reservation in Southern Arizona. Hosea was a scout and is shown well armed with his rifle, pistol and bowie knife. Taken in late July or early August 1874." Siris, on the other hand, also has him labelled as "Apache Chiricahua"... So... who was he? issuu.com/hendershott/docs/153_american_historywww.vintagephoto.com/reference/flanders/article.htmlsiris-archives.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?&profile=all&source=~!siarchives&uri=full=3100001~!20903~!0#focus I found that a man named Hosea was one the Chiricahua chiefs in Fort Marion. Certainly another name of one ever know but which one? "Castillos San Marcos, (apache imprisoned)"
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Post by kayitah on Dec 4, 2012 15:51:45 GMT -5
That would be José First, the "Hosea" of Castillo de San Marcos (name later changed to Fort Marion) José First - Charlie - Astoyeh Attachments:
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Post by josephine on Dec 5, 2012 20:24:19 GMT -5
No date, no name......only "Apache Indian". But for my is Hosea.
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Post by kayitah on Jan 14, 2013 9:52:21 GMT -5
"Tah-nole and Ryo-kliz, U.S. soldiers dressed in the uniform of Company J, 12th Infantry Regiment at Mt. Vernon, Alabama - Apache - circa 1889" (official caption, which is probably hardly legible as is so often the case) I think - Tah-ni-toe (b. 1855) and Go-kliz (b. 1861) Attachments:
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Post by kayitah on Feb 26, 2013 5:59:50 GMT -5
Coeurrouge, here's another photo of No-Talq, a member of Chato's delegation (Washington, D.C., 1886). No-tolch or No-talq listed 7 Jul 1886 at Fort Apache and discharged 8 Oct 1886 at (!) Fort Marion with Loco, Chatto, Kaahteney and others delegates in Washington, DC + arizonian heroes Kayitah and Martine. I guess the info that has already been posted is all we know for now, sorry. Maybe our N'dé friends know more about him.
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Post by kayitah on Feb 26, 2013 10:12:59 GMT -5
N'dé = Apache We have a couple forum members who are Chiricahua/Mescalero/Lipan/Western Apache, maybe one of them can tell you more about No-talq. You might have to wait a couple days, not everyone is online everyday, but if someone has more information I'm positive he/she will post it.
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Post by jasper4 on Mar 8, 2013 14:58:56 GMT -5
We are called Nde'dende.. "The People"
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Post by pullingup on Mar 14, 2013 17:01:03 GMT -5
Chiricahua and Mescalero use the term Ndé which means "people" but depending on context can also be translated as Apache or Indian or man or human being. The equivalent Western Apache term is Ndee. N'de is a popularly reproduced misspelling that apparently started with the Boundary Commission meeting with some Chiricahua near the Santa Rita copper mines back around 1850 or so. To say "the people" one would need to include an ending vowel with a high tone - Ndéí. Nde'dende may be from a Mescalero dictionary of their rendering of what Mescaleros say Chiricahuas call themselves. It would translate something like "people people".
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Post by naiches2 on Apr 5, 2013 1:33:11 GMT -5
I apologize in advance about my English .. Thats the question that came straight to my head pulligup, if that name was given by others or if it was inherent to their culture.. In fact, I have read that there is a very few information about Notalq probably because he was known bay another name ( I´m on it). As you all know, he was sent (end sept 1886) to Washington where was given the medal that is visible in the picture.. Yes, there is a very few information about Notalq, perhaps he died at Alabama...or he went to Arizona... or to New Mexico My info: No-tolch or No-talq, or No-tah (1866 – 18??) Height: 5'8" Scout: Enlistment - Jul 1, 1884 Turkey Cr. - Dec 31, 1884 Turkey Cr. Enlistment - Jan 1, 1885 Turkey Cr. - Oct 23,1884 Turkey Cr. Enlistment - Jul 7, 1886 Ft. Apache - Oct 8, 1886 Ft. Marion
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Nahi
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by Nahi on Apr 5, 2013 6:07:24 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the info, Naiches!
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Post by kayitah on Apr 8, 2013 21:52:12 GMT -5
Does anyone have the book "Lives of famous Indian Chiefs" by Norman B. Wood? I am asking because there's a variant of the Fort Sam Houston photograph which includes Tissnolthtos, Yahnozha, She-ga, Zhonne, Kayitah, Martine, Kanseah, Chappo (page 541). For comparison of the two photographs: jeroen's post, no. 53 - amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=chiricahua&action=display&thread=1100&page=4link to the image from Wood's book: ushistoryimages.com/images/apache-indians/fullsize/apache-indians-2.jpgPay attention to Zhonne, Martine, and Chappo. In case anyone has the book I would be very grateful for a good scan of that image. Thanks.
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Post by kayitah on Apr 24, 2013 19:35:57 GMT -5
Just yesterday I somewhat came to doubt the identification of Kayitah in the Fort Sam Houston photographs... I am aware that we all agreed on the identification, but looking at Kayitah (top row, center image) and "Motsos" at Fort Sam Houston I recognized a strong resemblance. Nose, chin and mouth seem identical, much more so than compared to the man on the left (so far believed to be Kayitah). I would like everyone to know that I don't doubt anyone's knowledge, but this resemblance really raised this question in me and I would like to ask for your opinions. Thanks Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Apr 25, 2013 1:33:25 GMT -5
NO, Sorry my fiend look at eyebrows and your mail btw.
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Post by jeroen on Apr 25, 2013 12:11:54 GMT -5
I have to agree with Naiches on this one my friend...
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Post by kayitah on Jan 27, 2014 16:48:04 GMT -5
Could this be the same man (Chiva)
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