Missing Pieces...Mary Red Cloud

[jlw894]

I am researching my lineage and have discovered many things, but as with many investigations, I have found as many questions as I have answers. So that I don't inundate the experts here, I will limit my first question to the following:

According to my family history, Mary Red Cloud (wife of Antoine Janis) is my great-great grandmother. After many nights on Mike Stevens' and others websites, I have found that Mary Red Cloud is actually Mary First Elk Woman, (Mary Featherman), daughter of Unk Featherman. I have found several references that said that Mary is the sister or niece of Red Cloud, I am assuming that based on timing and age that it is more likely that she was his niece. I have not been able to go back any further that Unk. Featherman or connect the dots between Red Cloud and Mary.

Any information would be greatly appreciated, then I will move onto question #2!

Thanks,

Jim

[jennahightower]

I had trouble figuring her out, there is alot of confusing info on her... I'm thinking that she is his neice also... looks like we may be related she was my great great great Grandma ) whoever she really is

[jlw894]

Thanks!! Will let you know if I find anything out!!

[debstar76]

Hi Jim, Mary Red Cloud or Mary First Elk Woman has always confused me also. She is my Great Great Great Grandmother too, I have found as you have the same information from my Father's Janis family history, that Mary was the sister or daughter of Red Cloud, who married Joseph Antoine Janis, they had many children, and Joseph Antoine's brother Nicholas or Old Nick married a Neice of Red Cloud, Martha He Bear. I am related to both brothers, they are both my ancestors.
I hope maybe together through this thread we will be able to figure out where our GGGrandmother Mary came from.

[janeen]

I'm very confused as well. Mary Red Cloud is also my great (x3) grandmother. Is there any way to find out if she was Red Cloud's daughter or niece? She's not listed as one of his children on the Tiyospaye site.

Lucy Janis is my great (x2) grandmother who married Peter Shangreau. Their daughter Rosa/Rose is my great grandmother.

What does anyone know about the Shangreau family? My uncle told me that the Shangreau's have some Creole blood from the South...but didn't claim it much because being Indian back then was "bad enough". The Shangreau trail goes cold for me at Peter Shangreau.

[hreinn]

Is Mary Red Cloud either:
1. daughter
2. sister
3. niece
of Red Cloud ?

There are informations in the book Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde which could either add to the confusion or lead to a better understanding.

"After 1870 Nicolas Janis married to Red Cloud's daughter, but whether this was the older man or his son is not clear." [1]

Note it is Nicolas Janis instead of Antoine Janis who is supposed to be married to Red Cloud's daughter.
Note it is not mentioned, whether this woman is Martha He Bear or Mary First Elk Woman (aka Mary Red Cloud).
Note this is a mixture of the information from debstar76 in the reply #3 above.

debstar76: Mary was the sister or daughter of Red Cloud, who married Joseph Antoine Janis.
Martha He Bear was a niece of Red Cloud, who married Nicholas Janis (aka Old Nick).
Hyde: Nicolas Janis married the daugther of Red Cloud.

According to Wendyll Smoke in reply # 49 in the thread Chief Smoke and his family and Hyde:
Red Cloud was born in 1821-1822. [2] [3].
Red Cloud's parents died around 1825. [2] [4].
So any sister of Red Cloud must be born before 1830.
Then most likely it was NOT Red Cloud's "blood sister" who got married after 1870 at the age of 40+.
Rather it was either Red Cloud's "blood daughter" or Red Cloud's "daughter"/Red Cloud's "sister" in the broad Lakota terms, that is Red Cloud's niece or a female relative of Red Cloud's wife.

To get an answer to that could perhaps be found by:

1. Contact with descendants of the brothers He Dog, Short Bull/Short Buffalo, Little Shield and Bad Heart Bull.
Because He Dog's mother was Blue Day Woman, who was supposed to be one of several sisters of Red Cloud.
According to Hyde: "He Dog, the son of one of Red Cloud's sisters". [5]
According to Hyde all these siblings were adopted by Smoke. [3] [4].
Wendyll Smoke only confirms the adoption of Red Cloud. [2]
But He Dog and his brothers were always considered to belong to the band Bad Face just as Red Cloud.
Since Red Cloud was raised in Smoke's Hunkpatila band and Red Cloud lived in his adult years in the Bad Face band.
This could mean that Red Cloud's wife belonged to the Bad Face band and Red Cloud moved to her camp when they got married.
One of the "sisters" of Red Cloud's wife could be Blue Day Woman.
Therefore Blue Day Woman would not a blood sister of Red Cloud.
But anyway, a talk with these descendants could be informative.

2. Read the journals and papers from Agent Thomas Twiss about possible marriage of Antoine Janis.
Because Agent Thomas Twiss choosed Antoine Janis as an interpreter for himself in 1855.
Twiss married to the Oglala Lakota woman Mary Standing Elk and was intermingled with the Lakotas untill he died in 1871.
So Twiss and Antoine Janis must have known each other well.
And perhaps contact the descendants of Twiss and Mary Standing Elk.
You can trace Twiss's modern relatives by reading the thread Agent Thomas Twiss [6].

3. Contact with descendants of James Bordeaux and Red Cormorant Woman.
Because the Janis brothers (Antoine and Nicolas) and James Bordeaux were traders with ties to the American Fur Trade company and all of them married to Oglala Lakota women.
So perhaps the descendants of James Bordeaux and Red Cormorant Woman have some knowledge about the marriages of the Janis brothers ?
There are many persons in the staff of the Sinte Gleska University with the surname Bordeaux.
On the University's web site you can see their e-mails [7].


Hreinn


References:
1. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), page 96.
2. amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=239&page=4
3. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), page 317.
4. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), pages 318.
5. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), page 87.
6. amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=261
7. sgumoodle.sintegleska.edu/TAB/list.php

[miller7513]

Little Moon, Laramie, Wyoming
Source: FHL Film 1255454 National Archives Film T9-1454 Page 239A
Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace
Neck JANES Self M M W 56 MO
Occ: Cattle Grower Fa: FRA Mo: FRA
Little Moon JANES Wife F M I 49 INDIAN RES.
Occ: Keeping House Fa: --- Mo: ---
Fillis JANES Son M S I 24 ND
Occ: Cattle Herder Fa: MO Mo: IND. TER.
Phillip JANES Other M S I 22 ND
Occ: Cattle Herder Fa: MO Mo: IND. TER.
Neck JANES Other M S I 20 ND
Occ: Cattle Herder Fa: MO Mo: IND. TER.
Benjamin JANES Other M S I 18 ND
Occ: Cattle Herder Fa: MO Mo: IND. TER.
Nettie JANES Dau F S I 16 ND
Occ: House Work Fa: MO Mo: IND. TER.
Edward JANES Son M S I 14 ND
Fa: MO Mo: IND. TER.
James JANES Other M S I 9 ND
Fa: MO Mo: IND. TER.
Edward JANES Other M S W 22 MO
Occ: Cattle Herder Fa: FRA Mo: FRA
Laramie Wyo 1880 census
miller7513

[debstar76]

Where did you find this LaDeane...I've never seen this census before? Wow! Great find...Edward Janis was my Great Grandfather..

[entropywins]

I don't know if I am confusing this more but as far as I know Martha he bear (1824-1916) who married nicholas janis (1827-1902) in 1845 was the daughter of he bear and walks on, who I have been told where both born around 1800's.

he bear I was told passed in 1826 and walks on 1830, walks on I have been told was also referred to as climbs....

this is all from family info no sources and I have not found anything about either he bear or walks on...

also if anyone has info on the newhirter name coming in after edward janis or any info on rosa and dorthea (dorothy?) janis I would be grateful, lovin you people!

[torchholder]

Mar 2, 2010 20:43:53 GMT -5 jlw894 said:

I am researching my lineage and have discovered many things, but as with many investigations, I have found as many questions as I have answers. So that I don't inundate the experts here, I will limit my first question to the following:

According to my family history, Mary Red Cloud (wife of Antoine Janis) is my great-great grandmother. After many nights on Mike Stevens' and others websites, I have found that Mary Red Cloud is actually Mary First Elk Woman, (Mary Featherman), daughter of Unk Featherman. I have found several references that said that Mary is the sister or niece of Red Cloud, I am assuming that based on timing and age that it is more likely that she was his niece. I have not been able to go back any further that Unk. Featherman or connect the dots between Red Cloud and Mary.

Any information would be greatly appreciated, then I will move onto question #2!

Thanks,

Jim

familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/l/e/a/Joan-Leaneagh/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0225.html

Mary First-Elk-Woman died 1906 in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. She married Joseph Antoine Janis, son of Antoine Janis and Marguerite Thibault.

Includes NotesNotes for Mary First-Elk-Woman:
Mary is shown using three names. Mary First-Elk-Woman, Mary First-Moose-Woman, and Mary Featherman.

She is the niece or half-sister to Cheif Red Cloud.

Children of Mary First-Elk-Woman and Joseph Antoine Janis are:

Maggie Janis, d. date unknown.
+Mollie Janis, d. date unknown.
Pete Janis, d. date unknown, Near Fort Laramie, WY.
Willie Janis, d. date unknown, Near Fort Laramie, WY.
+James Janis, d. date unknown.
+Zuzella Janis, d. date unknown.
+Antoine Janis, d. date unknown.
+Nick Janis, b. 1861, d. 1922.
Henry Janis, d. date unknown.
+Lucy Janis, d. date unknown.
+Lizzie Janis, d. date unknown.
+Josephine Janis, d. date unknown.
+Zona (Rosie) Janis, d. date unknown.
Charles Janis, d. date unknown.
Emily Janis, d. date unknown.
Louise Janis, d. date unknown.

Hi Aqualynne,
Joseph Antoine Janis is my husband's great-
great-great grandfather. I have a lot of info
on Joseph Antoine Janis. I sent to the Fort
Collins Library and they sent me a ton of
info. My husband's grandma Katherine (Janis)
Redfeather lives in Pine Ridge as well as
many aunts and uncles. Katherine's father was
Peter Janis, Peter's father was Antoine Janis
and Antoine's father was Joseph Antoine Janis.
Which child of Joseph are you descended from?
I would love to receive your family's side
from your descendant of Joseph Antoine Janis
down. My snail mail is 587 9th St SE
Sioux Center, Iowa 51250.
Janet Erdman

blessings to brother, oyate...

[miller7513]

Re: Missing Pieces...Mary Red Cloud hreinn
Seems every one has forgotten about the uncle of "CHIEF" Red Cloud whose name was ALSO Red Cloud as noted below
Descendants of
He Bear (---) and (---) (---)

1. He Bear1 (---). He married unknown.

Children of He Bear (---) were as follows:
+ 2 i Hollow Bear2 (---), born 1780 in Oglala Sioux Nation. He married (1) Good Owl (---); (2) unknown.
+ 3 ii He Bear2 (---), born 1800 in Lakota Nation, Oglala; died 1829 in Lakota Nation, Oglala. He married Walks On (---).

Generation 2

2. Hollow Bear2 (---) (He Bear1), born 1780 in Oglala Sioux Nation. He married (1) Good Owl (---), born 1794 in Oglala Sioux Nation; (2) unknown.

Children of Hollow Bear (---) and Good Owl (---) were as follows:
4 i Good Road3 (---), born 1823 in Oglala Sioux Nation. She married Running Elk (---), born 1808 in Oglala Sioux Nation, son of Whirlwind Chaser (---).
+ 5 ii Mary Good Road3 (---), born 1832 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 22 Jul 1940 in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. She married Red Cloud (---).
6 iii Big Lodge3 (---), born 1836 in Oglala Sioux Nation. She married Afraid Of Eagle (---), born 1834 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1903 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Little Wound (---). Notes: 1 Jun 1892 Pine Ridge pg 236 4 Mar 1893 Pine Ridge pg 14 1893 Pine Ridge pg 323 1 Jul 1894 Pine Ridge pg 10 30 Jun 1895 Pone Ridge pg 261 30 Jun 1896 Pone Ridge pg 5 30 Jun 1897 Pine Ridge pg 152 30 Jun 1898 Pine Ridge pg 442

Children of Hollow Bear (---) were as follows:
7 i Bear Brains3 (---), born 1810 in Oglala Sioux Nation. He married Brings Spotted (---), born 1819 in Oglala Sioux Nation, daughter of Lone Man (---) and Walks As She Thinks (---). Notes: Bear Brains-brother-in-law of Red Cloud. Pg 288 Crazy Horse Strange Man of the Oglala-Mari Sandoz
8 ii White Hawk3 (---), born 1812 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1840.


3. He Bear2 (---) (He Bear1), born 1800 in Lakota Nation, Oglala; died 1829 in Lakota Nation, Oglala. He married Walks On (---), born 1801 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1830 in Oglala Sioux Nation, daughter of Red Cloud (---) and Oglala Woman (---).

Children of He Bear (---) and Walks On (---) were as follows:
+ 9 i Martha3 He Bear, born 1829 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 20 Dec 1916 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Nicolas Janis.

Generation 3

5. Mary Good Road3 (---) (Hollow Bear2, He Bear1), born 1832 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 22 Jul 1940 in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. She married in Rawhide Buttes Red Cloud (---), born 20 Sep 1822 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 10 Dec 1909 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Lone Man (---) and Walks As She Thinks (---).

Notes for Mary Good Road (---)
Jun 1886 Pine Ridge
Jun 1887 Pine Ridge
1888 Pine Ridge pg 20 of 514
1900 census Pine Ridge pg 27 married 51 yrs 8 children 3 living
We-tamahecha or Lean Women, wife of Red Cloud

Notes for Red Cloud (---)
Chief Makhpiya-Luta or Ma-Kpe-Ah-Lou-Tah (Red Cloud or Scarlet Cloud) with His Wife, We-Tamahecha (Lean Woman), was bor abt 1819 according to Eastman (Ohiyesa) Charles Eastman
As reported by Mrs. James Cook in J. Olson Red Cloud and the Sioux Problem, it would seem that in his younger days the Oglala chief took other 5 (!) wives

Jun 1886 Pine Ridge pg 85
1886 Pine Ridge pg 365
1887 Pine Ridge pg 20
30 Jun 1888 Pine Ridge pg 303 of 514
1 Jul 1890 Pine Ridge pg pg 76
16 Aug 1892 Pine Ridge pg 248
3 Mar 1893 Pine Ridge pg 26
1893 Pine Ridge pg 256
30 Jun 1894 Pine Ridge pg 11
30 Jun 1895 Pine Ridge pg 261
30 Jun 1896 Pine Ridge pg 5
30 Jun 1897 Pine Ridge pg 152
30 Jun 1898 Pine Ridge pg 342
30 Jun 1899 Pine Ridge pg 481
1900 census Pine Ridge pg 27 married 51 yrs
Brother-in-law is Todd Randall--Blue Horse and Red Cloud were first cousins and headman Brave Bear, Red Cloud's brother-in-law
pg 106-107 Autobiography of Red Cloud Wears War Bonnet
Red Cloud (Makhpiya-luta) also Two Arrows and then Tall Hollow Horn, was born in Blue Creek near the forks of Platte River, Nebraska on Sept 20, 1822. Raised by his older sisters after parents death in 1825. died Dec 10, 1909 in Porcupine, Shannon Co., SD, at 87 years of age and was buried the following day in the cemetery of the Holy Rosary Mission. His body was interred Dec 11, 1909 in Pine Ridge, Shannon Co., SD., Holy Rosary Cemetery. Chief Red Cloud, blind and decrepit died at his home on the Pine Ridge Reservation. In about 1843 Tall Hollow Horn killed a Shoshoni in a battle and rode back toward the Sioux party, holding up the enemy scalp and shouting that from this day he assumes the name of his grandfather and his fathers name, Red Cloud.
He married Mary Good Road near Raw Hide Buttes, Red Cloud's marriage occurred sometime between 1848 and 1851.
Two events of this period gave Red Cloud fame in the camps of the Sioux. The first was in 1841, when an old quarrel broke out anew in the Bad Face band and Red Cloud, who was a leader of the younger men, shot and killed Bull Bear, then the most noted chief in the band. Yellow Lodge, brother of Red Cloud, born CA 1825, was killed in the fight between Old Bull Bear, Smoke and Red Cloud. He was 16 years of age.
The other was in 1849, when he crossed the Rocky Mountains, leading a war party into the heart of the Shoshoni country and bringing back many scalps and ponies.

Wooed Pretty Woman away from Touches Cloud (Running Elk) she died of pneumonia

Children of Mary Good Road (---) and Red Cloud (---) were as follows:
+ 10 i Matilda4 (---), born 1849 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 20 May 1925 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Grant Short Bull.
+ 11 ii Fanny Hard Woman4 (---), born 1850 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 8 Apr 1930 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married American Horse (---).
+ 12 iii Wears War Bonnet4 (---), born 1852 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 29 Oct 1924 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married (1) Long Soldier (---); (2) unknown.
+ 13 iv Hay Leg4 (---), born 1854 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1925 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Frank Man Afraid of His Horse.
+ 14 v Louise4 Red Cloud, born 1856 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1900 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Peter Richard.
+ 15 vi Jack4 Red Cloud, born 1858 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1 Jul 1918 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. He married (1) Good Cloud; (2) Nancy Poor Elk.
+ 16 vii Charges At4 (---), born 1861 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 7 Oct 1937 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Kills Above (---).
+ 17 viii Told To Her4 (---), born 1864 in Oglala Sioux Nation. She married (1) Chase Alone (---); (2) Adolph Lone Elk.


9. Martha3 He Bear (He Bear2, He Bear1), born 1829 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 20 Dec 1916 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Nicolas Janis, born 12 Oct 1827 in St Charles Co Mo; died 17 Sep 1902 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Antoine St Charles Janis and Margurite Thibault.

Notes for Martha He Bear
Little Moon-1880 census Laramie, Wyo-was related to Red Cloud pg 217 Autobiography of Red Cloud-full blood-Pg 1 Family history of Antoine Janis niece of Red Cloud

Notes for Nicolas Janis
Also JONIESÊ
Trade on the White River was apparently just as heavy in the winter of 1846-1847. Nicholas Janis said in later years that he arrived at Fort Laramie from St. Charles, Missouri, on October 15, 1846. He was immediately sent to the White River with a party under Bordeaux's command and spent the winter "near the spot on which Fort Robinson now stands." He probably helped trade in some Oglala camp located there.
Where by right of living with a Sioux woman he was enrolled as a member of the tribe with full rations, clothing, and other sup­plies.
Excerpts from pg 166 The Autobiography of Red Cloud-"One man by the name of Hank Clifford was established with Old Man Afraid of His Horse, while Brave Bear had a large traders outfit at his lodge under the charge of Nick Janis, a man of marked intelligence and fine physique well known among all the Sioux not only as a trader in the employ of the American Fur Co.but also as an interpreter who generally officiated for the government commissioners on their various trips from Washington to council with the Sioux"
Census Place: Little Moon, Laramie, Wyoming
Source: FHL Film 1255454 National Archives Film T9-1454 Page 239A
Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace
Neck JANES Self M M W 56
LaDeane Miller

[chadron]

Anyone ever find out any more information? Joseph Antoine Janis and Mary First Elk Woman were my great great great grandparents. Descended from Peter Shangreau and Lucy Janis. Have read that First Elk Woman was a daughter of Old Smoke too. Also read Swift Hawk being her brother, Old Smoke's soon. Again not sure any help appreciated.

[rick77]

Jan 27, 2011 17:01:01 GMT -5 hreinn said:

Is Mary Red Cloud either:
1. daughter
2. sister
3. niece
of Red Cloud ?

There are informations in the book Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde which could either add to the confusion or lead to a better understanding.

"After 1870 Nicolas Janis married to Red Cloud's daughter, but whether this was the older man or his son is not clear." [1]

Note it is Nicolas Janis instead of Antoine Janis who is supposed to be married to Red Cloud's daughter.
Note it is not mentioned, whether this woman is Martha He Bear or Mary First Elk Woman (aka Mary Red Cloud).
Note this is a mixture of the information from debstar76 in the reply #3 above.

debstar76: Mary was the sister or daughter of Red Cloud, who married Joseph Antoine Janis.
Martha He Bear was a niece of Red Cloud, who married Nicholas Janis (aka Old Nick).
Hyde: Nicolas Janis married the daugther of Red Cloud.

According to Wendyll Smoke in reply # 49 in the thread Chief Smoke and his family and Hyde:
Red Cloud was born in 1821-1822. [2] [3].
Red Cloud's parents died around 1825. [2] [4].
So any sister of Red Cloud must be born before 1830.
Then most likely it was NOT Red Cloud's "blood sister" who got married after 1870 at the age of 40+.
Rather it was either Red Cloud's "blood daughter" or Red Cloud's "daughter"/Red Cloud's "sister" in the broad Lakota terms, that is Red Cloud's niece or a female relative of Red Cloud's wife.

To get an answer to that could perhaps be found by:

1. Contact with descendants of the brothers He Dog, Short Bull/Short Buffalo, Little Shield and Bad Heart Bull.
Because He Dog's mother was Blue Day Woman, who was supposed to be one of several sisters of Red Cloud.
According to Hyde: "He Dog, the son of one of Red Cloud's sisters". [5]
According to Hyde all these siblings were adopted by Smoke. [3] [4].
Wendyll Smoke only confirms the adoption of Red Cloud. [2]
But He Dog and his brothers were always considered to belong to the band Bad Face just as Red Cloud.
Since Red Cloud was raised in Smoke's Hunkpatila band and Red Cloud lived in his adult years in the Bad Face band.
This could mean that Red Cloud's wife belonged to the Bad Face band and Red Cloud moved to her camp when they got married.
One of the "sisters" of Red Cloud's wife could be Blue Day Woman.
Therefore Blue Day Woman would not a blood sister of Red Cloud.
But anyway, a talk with these descendants could be informative.

2. Read the journals and papers from Agent Thomas Twiss about possible marriage of Antoine Janis.
Because Agent Thomas Twiss choosed Antoine Janis as an interpreter for himself in 1855.
Twiss married to the Oglala Lakota woman Mary Standing Elk and was intermingled with the Lakotas untill he died in 1871.
So Twiss and Antoine Janis must have known each other well.
And perhaps contact the descendants of Twiss and Mary Standing Elk.
You can trace Twiss's modern relatives by reading the thread Agent Thomas Twiss [6].

3. Contact with descendants of James Bordeaux and Red Cormorant Woman.
Because the Janis brothers (Antoine and Nicolas) and James Bordeaux were traders with ties to the American Fur Trade company and all of them married to Oglala Lakota women.
So perhaps the descendants of James Bordeaux and Red Cormorant Woman have some knowledge about the marriages of the Janis brothers ?
There are many persons in the staff of the Sinte Gleska University with the surname Bordeaux.
On the University's web site you can see their e-mails [7].


Hreinn


References:
1. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), page 96.
2. amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=239&page=4
3. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), page 317.
4. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), pages 318.
5. Red Cloud's Folk by George E. Hyde (1975), page 87.
6. amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=261
7. sgumoodle.sintegleska.edu/TAB/list.php

[rick77]

I am told that I am related to Mary Red Cloud myself. She is a supposedly my grandmothers grandmother on my mother's side of the family.Told she was a Cheiftess in her lifetime.My grandmother was/is Dorothy Lucille Allen..her maiden name.Married name of Adams.She was born in 1921 Texas.Anyone relating to this or can assist my search? Trying to establish exact bloodline and percentage of tribe in my personal make up.

[grigoryev]

Aug 20, 2011 11:30:05 GMT -5 miller7513 said:

Re: Missing Pieces...Mary Red Cloud hreinn
Seems every one has forgotten about the uncle of "CHIEF" Red Cloud whose name was ALSO Red Cloud as noted below
Descendants of
He Bear (---) and (---) (---)

1. He Bear1 (---). He married unknown.

Children of He Bear (---) were as follows:
+ 2 i Hollow Bear2 (---), born 1780 in Oglala Sioux Nation. He married (1) Good Owl (---); (2) unknown.
+ 3 ii He Bear2 (---), born 1800 in Lakota Nation, Oglala; died 1829 in Lakota Nation, Oglala. He married Walks On (---).

Generation 2

2. Hollow Bear2 (---) (He Bear1), born 1780 in Oglala Sioux Nation. He married (1) Good Owl (---), born 1794 in Oglala Sioux Nation; (2) unknown.

Children of Hollow Bear (---) and Good Owl (---) were as follows:
4 i Good Road3 (---), born 1823 in Oglala Sioux Nation. She married Running Elk (---), born 1808 in Oglala Sioux Nation, son of Whirlwind Chaser (---).
+ 5 ii Mary Good Road3 (---), born 1832 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 22 Jul 1940 in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. She married Red Cloud (---).
6 iii Big Lodge3 (---), born 1836 in Oglala Sioux Nation. She married Afraid Of Eagle (---), born 1834 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1903 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Little Wound (---). Notes: 1 Jun 1892 Pine Ridge pg 236 4 Mar 1893 Pine Ridge pg 14 1893 Pine Ridge pg 323 1 Jul 1894 Pine Ridge pg 10 30 Jun 1895 Pone Ridge pg 261 30 Jun 1896 Pone Ridge pg 5 30 Jun 1897 Pine Ridge pg 152 30 Jun 1898 Pine Ridge pg 442

Children of Hollow Bear (---) were as follows:
7 i Bear Brains3 (---), born 1810 in Oglala Sioux Nation. He married Brings Spotted (---), born 1819 in Oglala Sioux Nation, daughter of Lone Man (---) and Walks As She Thinks (---). Notes: Bear Brains-brother-in-law of Red Cloud. Pg 288 Crazy Horse Strange Man of the Oglala-Mari Sandoz
8 ii White Hawk3 (---), born 1812 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1840.


3. He Bear2 (---) (He Bear1), born 1800 in Lakota Nation, Oglala; died 1829 in Lakota Nation, Oglala. He married Walks On (---), born 1801 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1830 in Oglala Sioux Nation, daughter of Red Cloud (---) and Oglala Woman (---).

Children of He Bear (---) and Walks On (---) were as follows:
+ 9 i Martha3 He Bear, born 1829 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 20 Dec 1916 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Nicolas Janis.

Generation 3

5. Mary Good Road3 (---) (Hollow Bear2, He Bear1), born 1832 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 22 Jul 1940 in Pine Ridge, South Dakota. She married in Rawhide Buttes Red Cloud (---), born 20 Sep 1822 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 10 Dec 1909 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Lone Man (---) and Walks As She Thinks (---).

Notes for Mary Good Road (---)
Jun 1886 Pine Ridge
Jun 1887 Pine Ridge
1888 Pine Ridge pg 20 of 514
1900 census Pine Ridge pg 27 married 51 yrs 8 children 3 living
We-tamahecha or Lean Women, wife of Red Cloud

Notes for Red Cloud (---)
Chief Makhpiya-Luta or Ma-Kpe-Ah-Lou-Tah (Red Cloud or Scarlet Cloud) with His Wife, We-Tamahecha (Lean Woman), was bor abt 1819 according to Eastman (Ohiyesa) Charles Eastman
As reported by Mrs. James Cook in J. Olson Red Cloud and the Sioux Problem, it would seem that in his younger days the Oglala chief took other 5 (!) wives

Jun 1886 Pine Ridge pg 85
1886 Pine Ridge pg 365
1887 Pine Ridge pg 20
30 Jun 1888 Pine Ridge pg 303 of 514
1 Jul 1890 Pine Ridge pg pg 76
16 Aug 1892 Pine Ridge pg 248
3 Mar 1893 Pine Ridge pg 26
1893 Pine Ridge pg 256
30 Jun 1894 Pine Ridge pg 11
30 Jun 1895 Pine Ridge pg 261
30 Jun 1896 Pine Ridge pg 5
30 Jun 1897 Pine Ridge pg 152
30 Jun 1898 Pine Ridge pg 342
30 Jun 1899 Pine Ridge pg 481
1900 census Pine Ridge pg 27 married 51 yrs
Brother-in-law is Todd Randall--Blue Horse and Red Cloud were first cousins and headman Brave Bear, Red Cloud's brother-in-law
pg 106-107 Autobiography of Red Cloud Wears War Bonnet
Red Cloud (Makhpiya-luta) also Two Arrows and then Tall Hollow Horn, was born in Blue Creek near the forks of Platte River, Nebraska on Sept 20, 1822. Raised by his older sisters after parents death in 1825. died Dec 10, 1909 in Porcupine, Shannon Co., SD, at 87 years of age and was buried the following day in the cemetery of the Holy Rosary Mission. His body was interred Dec 11, 1909 in Pine Ridge, Shannon Co., SD., Holy Rosary Cemetery. Chief Red Cloud, blind and decrepit died at his home on the Pine Ridge Reservation. In about 1843 Tall Hollow Horn killed a Shoshoni in a battle and rode back toward the Sioux party, holding up the enemy scalp and shouting that from this day he assumes the name of his grandfather and his fathers name, Red Cloud.
He married Mary Good Road near Raw Hide Buttes, Red Cloud's marriage occurred sometime between 1848 and 1851.
Two events of this period gave Red Cloud fame in the camps of the Sioux. The first was in 1841, when an old quarrel broke out anew in the Bad Face band and Red Cloud, who was a leader of the younger men, shot and killed Bull Bear, then the most noted chief in the band. Yellow Lodge, brother of Red Cloud, born CA 1825, was killed in the fight between Old Bull Bear, Smoke and Red Cloud. He was 16 years of age.
The other was in 1849, when he crossed the Rocky Mountains, leading a war party into the heart of the Shoshoni country and bringing back many scalps and ponies.

Wooed Pretty Woman away from Touches Cloud (Running Elk) she died of pneumonia

Children of Mary Good Road (---) and Red Cloud (---) were as follows:
+ 10 i Matilda4 (---), born 1849 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 20 May 1925 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Grant Short Bull.
+ 11 ii Fanny Hard Woman4 (---), born 1850 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 8 Apr 1930 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married American Horse (---).
+ 12 iii Wears War Bonnet4 (---), born 1852 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 29 Oct 1924 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married (1) Long Soldier (---); (2) unknown.
+ 13 iv Hay Leg4 (---), born 1854 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1925 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Frank Man Afraid of His Horse.
+ 14 v Louise4 Red Cloud, born 1856 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1900 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Peter Richard.
+ 15 vi Jack4 Red Cloud, born 1858 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 1 Jul 1918 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. He married (1) Good Cloud; (2) Nancy Poor Elk.
+ 16 vii Charges At4 (---), born 1861 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 7 Oct 1937 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Kills Above (---).
+ 17 viii Told To Her4 (---), born 1864 in Oglala Sioux Nation. She married (1) Chase Alone (---); (2) Adolph Lone Elk.


9. Martha3 He Bear (He Bear2, He Bear1), born 1829 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 20 Dec 1916 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. She married Nicolas Janis, born 12 Oct 1827 in St Charles Co Mo; died 17 Sep 1902 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota, son of Antoine St Charles Janis and Margurite Thibault.

Notes for Martha He Bear
Little Moon-1880 census Laramie, Wyo-was related to Red Cloud pg 217 Autobiography of Red Cloud-full blood-Pg 1 Family history of Antoine Janis niece of Red Cloud

Notes for Nicolas Janis
Also JONIESÊ
Trade on the White River was apparently just as heavy in the winter of 1846-1847. Nicholas Janis said in later years that he arrived at Fort Laramie from St. Charles, Missouri, on October 15, 1846. He was immediately sent to the White River with a party under Bordeaux's command and spent the winter "near the spot on which Fort Robinson now stands." He probably helped trade in some Oglala camp located there.
Where by right of living with a Sioux woman he was enrolled as a member of the tribe with full rations, clothing, and other sup­plies.
Excerpts from pg 166 The Autobiography of Red Cloud-"One man by the name of Hank Clifford was established with Old Man Afraid of His Horse, while Brave Bear had a large traders outfit at his lodge under the charge of Nick Janis, a man of marked intelligence and fine physique well known among all the Sioux not only as a trader in the employ of the American Fur Co.but also as an interpreter who generally officiated for the government commissioners on their various trips from Washington to council with the Sioux"
Census Place: Little Moon, Laramie, Wyoming
Source: FHL Film 1255454 National Archives Film T9-1454 Page 239A
Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace
Neck JANES Self M M W 56
LaDeane Miller