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Post by Historian on Jul 1, 2009 8:21:16 GMT -5
On the link marked "Unidentified Photograph" www.american-tribes.com/Articles/ART/UnidentifiedPhoto.htm the following photo appears:  I would like to suggest that at least two of the men could be identified. Sitting on the left I believe to be Two Strike (Sicangu), and the man sitting on the right I believe to be Ring Thunder (Sicangu), based on the photos below, used for comparison. Two Strike and wife - Sicangu - 1872  Two Strike - Sicangu - 1891  Standing L-R: Jose Merivalle, Young Spotted Tail (Sicangu), Touch The Clouds (Mniconjou), Hollow Horn Bear (Mniconjou), White Tail (Mniconjou), William Garnett (aka Billy Hunter) Sitting L-R: Red Bear (Itazipco), Ring Thunder (Sicangu), Spotted Tail (Sicangu), Good Voice (Sicangu), Little Hawk (Sicangu), Swift Bear (Sicangu) – 1877  |
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Post by charlie on Jul 1, 2009 9:59:09 GMT -5
In the 1877 delegation photo sitting between Red Bear and Spotted Tail is the son of this last, Spotted Tail Jr.
I don't know the three chiefs in your starting photo. My suggestion is that sitting on left is Little Wound (Oglala). No idea about the two others.
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Post by Historian on Jul 1, 2009 11:35:19 GMT -5
...My suggestion is that sitting on left is Little Wound (Oglala). No idea about the two others. You might be right. Little Wound – Oglala – 1876  |
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Post by jinlian on Jul 1, 2009 12:18:52 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on Jul 3, 2009 1:52:26 GMT -5
IIn my humble opinion the man sitting right looks a lot like Yellow Bear, an Arapaho...  |
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Post by Dietmar on Aug 4, 2009 7:31:28 GMT -5
jeroen,
although I see a resemblance I am not sure about Yellow Bear. I tend to believe that the first photograph was taken of the Sioux delegation in 1872, but must admit I have found no further proof. (compare to photos taken of High Wolf and Red Dog)
There were taken many portaits by Alexander Gardner of the 1872 delegation, but apparently not all delegates were pictured in that famous series as Kingsley Bray has stated earlier that Red Leaf was also part of the delegation group. Is there a list with all names who were present in Washington then? And is Little Wound in it?
P.S. There were some Southern Arapaho delegates photographed by Gardner that year, but Yellow Bear is not in that series. However, he could had been there...
Do you now more, Jeroen?
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Post by jinlian on Aug 4, 2009 7:46:44 GMT -5
There were taken many portaits by Alexander Gardner of the 1872 delegation, but apparently not all delegates were pictured in that famous series. Is there a list with all names who were present in Washington then? And is Little Wound in it? Hi Dietmar, Here's a partial list reported in James Olson's great book on Red Cloud ( sources are the reports of the Secretary of the Interior and newspapers accounts such as those of the New York Times and the Cheyenne Daily Leader): Red Cloud, Red Dog, High Wolf, Little Wound , Red Leaf, Big Foot, Blue Horse. Interpreters were Jules Ecoffey, Nick Janis and Joseph Bissonette. A fragment from Olson's book (courtesy of Google Books):  In Price's The Oglala People it is also stated that Little Wound was a delegate to Washington in 1872. And here's a NY Times article mentioning many of the 1872 delegation members - Little Wound is mentioned along with Red Cloud and Red Dog: query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fre....FB3668389669FDEAlso, googling "Little Wound" 1872, "delegation" in Google Books, one can view a fragment of the Annual Report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs of 1872, where the 1872 is mentioned along with the names of its principal members: Red Cloud, Red Dog, Little Wound, Red Leaf and Blue Horse. Now, if Little Wound was for sure in the delegation, why him being photographed sounds that incredible  ? |
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Post by Dietmar on Aug 4, 2009 8:00:55 GMT -5
Hi jinlian,  it´s not incredible... just want to be sure... you know how easy it is to get wrong identifications of those old photos. Thanks  Dietmar |
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Post by jinlian on Aug 4, 2009 8:09:42 GMT -5
Yes, I know...what puzzled me wasn't the uncertainty about the identity of the man in the photograph, but the skepticism about Little Wound being a delegate in 1872.. paradoxically enough.from the reports, it looks that in fact he was one of the most prominent delegates in that one  |
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Post by Dietmar on Aug 4, 2009 8:33:34 GMT -5
... and it is surprising that Gardner hasn´t manage to take photos of Little Wound and Red Leaf for his famous series.
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Post by jinlian on Aug 4, 2009 8:53:37 GMT -5
Well, oddities in delegation photographs did happen - for instance, we could wonder why Red Cloud was treated as an almost marginal figure in the 1877 delegation photos (he wasn't among in the "shirt & headdress" series featuring He Dog, American Horse, Billy Garnett and Little Wound, wasn't put in a central position in the Brady ones and the only other photos taken was the Corcoran one by Garden - and wasn't even in the Bell group photo whereas Sword, who wasn't even a delegation member, was instead included). Also, about the 1889 Lakota delegation, so far I've only seen a photograph of the Brulé delegates but none of the Oglalas. Back to the "unidentified photograph": if it was taken in 1872 and if the man kneeling on the left is indeed Little Wound, Gardener managed to take at least a shot of him... |
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Post by emilylevine on Aug 4, 2009 16:52:58 GMT -5
sitting on left is NOT Two Strike
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Post by jeroen on Aug 5, 2009 11:18:18 GMT -5
I am not certain, but I once read, don't recall where, that Yellow Bear did go to Washington. In my opinion the man sitting on the right bears a close resemblance to Yellow Bear. I don't think the man sitting on the left looks like Two Strike and I doubt it is Little Wound either although the same fan is shown in the 1872 Two strike photo. This in itself is not conclusive evidence, but it does make it likely that the unidentified photo was taken on the same occasion.
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Post by Dietmar on Jan 28, 2010 16:26:30 GMT -5
Remember the discussion we had about the three men in the group photo in the first post of this thread? Now we have the man kneeling on right in a portrait from the archives of the British Museum. I´m pretty sure now that these photos are of the Sioux delegation of 1872, but still I don´t know for sure who this man is:  |
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Post by clarence on Apr 10, 2013 5:02:34 GMT -5
Hi everybody!
It's the first time I write on this forum even if it's years I follow it enthousiastly!!
In my opinion the man kneeling left in the first "Unidentified Photograph" is for sure Little Wound.
Comparing with the Gardner photo on the Little Wound thread page we can see the two men wearing the same blanket, gilet, white shirt and earrings! The hairs are the same too, braided only on the left side.
Proven this I vote for the other two being members of the same delegation, considering some Brulés and Oglalas not comparing on Gardners series.
Hope this helps, best regards!
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