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Post by wolfgang911 on May 18, 2009 17:10:41 GMT -5
ok I was afraid they were in oklahoma still held by the pawnees :-) weird though that if so sacred they are not up north on cheyenne rez
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Post by miyelo on May 18, 2009 20:06:31 GMT -5
Gary...have you looked into the meeting at Bear Butte that was held last summer? I don't know too much but I do know one of the sacred arrows was found and there was a secret meeting surrounding it. I figure it's probably not secret anymore so I can mention it. I think Red Cherries was there and some other guys from N.Cheyenne Tribe.
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Post by Gary on May 19, 2009 13:28:42 GMT -5
Hi Miyelo
No, I hadn't heard about that. Can you tell me any more?
The original four Arrows were captured by the Pawnees in 1830 (George Bent says 1833, but 1830 is the date usually accepted). One of the Arrows was subsequently recovered by Grey Thunder in about 1835, when he visited the Pawnees in order to try to recover the Arrows. A second was subsequently captured by Brule Lakotas in about 1837 and returned to the Cheyennes. The other two were retained by the Pawnees and replacements were made by the Cheyennes. I had not heard of either of the remaining two Arrows being returned.
Gary
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Post by miyelo on May 26, 2009 20:46:50 GMT -5
hi...sorry have not been on....i remember someone close to the situation telling me and some others that one of the sacred arrows had been found...i thought at bear butte...and that a meeting/ceremony was being held there as to decide what to do, that I know happened at bear butte last summer. I know who to ask I will do so and let you know.
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Post by Gary on Oct 8, 2010 3:49:55 GMT -5
Hi stoneforehead
Any information that you can share will be appreciated.
White Thunder (1763-1838), also known as Gray Thunder or Painted Thunder is the first Arrow Keeper about whom we have any detailed information. This is because he was the father-in-law of the trader, William Bent and the grandfather of George Bent whose letters formed the basis of George Hyde’s Life of George Bent. He is believed to have assumed the Keeper’s role in 1830. At the time, he would have been nearly sixty years old and was to safeguard the Arrows for the next eight years.
During White Thunder’s first year as Arrow Keeper, all four Arrows were lost in battle. 1830 is traditionally recorded as the third movement of the Sacred Arrows into battle. The tribe moved against the Pawnee, on the South Loup River, Nebraska. The Arrows were carried into battle by a warrior named Bull and were captured by the Pawnee. After the loss of the Arrows, the despondent Cheyennes retreated.
c.1835, one of the Sacred Arrows was recovered by Gray Thunder who visited the Pawnees for this purpose.
1837 A war party of Brule Lakota recovered a second Sacred Arrow for the Cheyennes in an attack upon a Pawnee village.
Replacement Arrows were made, two of which were ritually destroyed when the originals were recovered. The current location of the two apparently retained by the Pawnees is something of a mystery.
In 1838 White Thunder was killed in the Battle of Wolf Creek. When White Thunder was killed, his wife, Tail Woman, looked after the Arrows on a temporary basis. The Arrows were eventually passed to the custody of Lame Medicine Man. There is some uncertainty as to whether Lame Medicine Man was White Thunder’s immediate successor or whether Elk River was a temporary custodian of the Arrows prior to Lame Medicine Man’s succession. Although there is this uncertainty, it seems that Elk River succeeded White Thunder in 1838, but died within the year. In any event, Lame Medicine Man appears to have been the main keeper until 1849, when Stone Forehead became the Arrow Keeper, an office that he would hold for the next 27 years.
Stone Forehead (?-1876) (Hohonai’viuhk’ Tanuhk), was also called Medicine Arrow(s) and Man Who Walks With His Toes Turned Out (at least according to a journalist who covered the gathering for the signing of the Treaty of Fort Laramie in 1851).
Stone Forehead’s last major act as Arrow Keeper was to carry the Arrows north in 1875, to prevent them being captured by the army during the Red River War. He died the following year. Although he went north, Stone Forehead does not appear to have been present at the Rosebud or the Little Big Horn. Stone Forehead’s successor was his son, Black Hairy Dog.
In 1876 Black Hairy Dog (son of Stone Forehead and father of later keeper of the Arrows, Jay Black Kettle) became keeper of the Sacred Arrows, succeeding Stone Forehead. Black Hairy Dog was the Arrow Keeper until his death in 1883.
In 1883, Little Man (nephew of Stone Forehead and cousin of Black Hairy Dog) succeeded Black Hairy Dog as keeper of the Sacred Arrows. In 1917, Little Man, died. There appears to have been no permanent new keeper until 1920, when Mower was appointed. As far as I can tell, Mower was not related to the earlier keepers. The dates for Mower’s tenure are uncertain. He was followed as Keeper by White Rabbit. After a year, he had been replaced by Red Bird Hog who became the temporary Arrow Keeper. He carried on in this capacity until 1936, when he relinquished the care of the Sacred Arrows to Baldwin Twins. Once more, as far as I can tell, neither White Rabbit, nor Red Bird Hog were related to the earlier keepers.
Baldwin Twins (c.1874-1964), also known as Scabby, became the Arrow Keeper in 1936 and was to hold the office for twenty years (until 1956). His nephew, Bald Face Buffalo, married the daughter of Little Man. In 1956-1957 Fred Last Bull (c.1888-c.1961) looked after the Arrows after Baldwin Twins took them to the Northern people in 1956. Last Bull does not seem to be related to the earlier keepers.
In 1957, the Arrows were entrusted to Jay Black Kettle (1881-1969). Also known as Jay Black or Gentle Horse. Jay Black Kettle is believed to be the son of Black Hairy Dog. For some reason, he relinquished this role in about 1962. From about 1962-1971(?) James Medicine Elk (1907-1974) was the keeper. Once again, he does not seem to be related to the earlier keepers.
From about 1971-1982 Edward Red Hat Snr (1898-1982) became the keeper. Although I have not traced a direct link between Edward Red Hat and the earlier keepers, he was married to Little Man’s granddaughter. In 1982, upon the death of Edward Red Hat Snr. Joe Antelope became the Arrow Keeper. He held the Arrows until his death in 1985, when he was succeeded as Arrow Keeper by Alfrich Heap of Birds. Alfrich Heap of Birds was the Arrow Keeper from about 1985-1990. Once more, he does not seem to have been related to the earlier keepers.
In 1990, Heap of Birds died and William Wayne Red Hat Snr (son of Edward) become the Arrow Keeper. In 1993, William Wayne Red Hat died and was succeeded as Arrow Keeper by his son, William Red Hat Jnr, who is the great great grandson of Little Man and the great great grand nephew of Stone Forehead.
If you can add any details, I would be most interested.
Gary
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Post by Gary on Oct 8, 2010 8:47:14 GMT -5
Hi stoneforehead
Are you saying that the Pawnees returned the remaining two Arrows to the Cheyennes? Can you give some more information about this? When did it happen?
When exactly was Little Bear Man the Arrow Keeper?
I would be interested in all of the information that you can provide. In particular, I only have quite rough details for Arrow Keepers before White Thunder. My details are as follows.
Tribal tradition makes it clear that Sweet Medicine was a real, albeit exceptionally long lived, man. Whilst his life span may be difficult to accommodate within the historic record, he would seem to have been the custodian of the Arrows for an extended period, from perhaps c.1740 to the end of the eighteen century. I know that some people say that he dates from an earlier time and was Arrow Keeper for longer. Do you have any thoughts on this?
There are no definitive dates for Sweet Medicine’s tenure as Arrow Keeper and details of those who followed him over the next twenty years or so are somewhat sketchy. Among those who followed Sweet Medicine as Arrow Keeper in the late eighteenth century and early nineteenth century are Crow, Bear Medicine, also known as Medicine Bear, Rabbit Robe, Standing Bear End, Magpie and Medicine With. No real information seems to be readily available in relation to these priests. The first Keeper about whom we have any real knowledge is Dog Faced Medicine Man, who was the Arrow Keeper from about 1817. Do you have any further information?
All that is really known of Dog Faced Medicine Man himself is that he became the Arrow Keeper in about 1817. It is also known however that the first recorded movement of the Sacred Arrows, when the whole tribe came together to make war on the enemy, led by the Arrows, took place the same year (or perhaps 1818) and George Bent tells us that Dog Faced Medicine Man was the Arrow Keeper when the Arrows were moved against the Shoshone at that time. He gives quite a good description of the ceremony.
It is not clear exactly when Dog Faced Medicine Man’s tenure as Arrow Keeper came to an end, but it seems that by the late 1820s, Feathers was looking after them. It seems that Feathers kept the Arrows until 1830 when they passed to White Thunder. In theory therefore, we can trace the Arrow Keepers back to about 1817.
As I have already mentioned, I appreciate all information that you can provide. What is your family link?
If you would prefer, you could send me a personal message.
Gary
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Post by Gary on Oct 24, 2010 11:32:52 GMT -5
Hi stoneforehead
Thanks for all of the additional information. I will study it carefully.
I cannot track down the Ottaway book, but I'm working on it.
Gary
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Post by Gary on Oct 25, 2010 16:51:24 GMT -5
Hi stoneforehead
That would be great. I will PM you with my e-mail address.
Gary
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Post by Dietmar on Feb 7, 2011 10:44:40 GMT -5
insidethecheyenne,
welcome to these message boards and thank you for your contribution. I understand that these matters are very sensitive. I hope we discuss about the Sacred Arrow Keepers in a sincere way, if not please let us know and correct us.
Best wishes
Dietmar
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Post by momahtahevoane on Aug 16, 2011 23:59:20 GMT -5
xonetamenestse! hese vonohohaa osane havesevem ta se hene'enosane!
"veho-gis!"White Leaf those are strong words.I will come visit you.Guidance is what you need.
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Post by stoneforehead on Aug 20, 2011 1:10:52 GMT -5
"a man so powerful can never rule a nation,that is why we made 44 chiefs."i removed all the past posts i made.seeing this in my own cheyenne nation,maybe they arent really ready for a new way of life.we are thriving and we arent going to die.we walk this earth praying and guarding you,giving you a belief that was the truth.we are cheyenne.
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Post by whiteleaf on Aug 22, 2011 21:17:03 GMT -5
im not being negative but i wanted to figure out a few things from the board. i found them out. i want to point out that ed redhat's great-grandson is in training if you call it that. i apologize if I say too much or speak strongly but i took it easy, my brothers and grandfathers would not have been so light. there are so few of us left that follow the old way, it would be a blessing if you all were with us doing the things that need to be done in the tipi.
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Post by insidethecheyenne on Sept 5, 2011 3:10:03 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Feb 27, 2012 13:44:45 GMT -5
From the above account ...
"In the Medicine Arrow Lodge surrounded by then the 6 Cheyenne Nation Warrior Societies.Stone Forehead poured the tobacco ashes on Custer's boot.
He spoke to Custer "If you ever lie to the Cheyenne or go against us,you will become those ashes."
Custer soon fired upon the village of Washita killing children,woman and old ones. Going against his word and with broken treaties.In the end found himself staring down the plains over 1500 warriors,perished at the Battle of Little Big Horn."
Very interesting words. I have never seen that before.
dT
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Post by Gary on Apr 27, 2012 2:14:57 GMT -5
Dear All
I see that it is a long time since I posted on this topic.
I have been thinking about the family connections between the various Arrow Keepers. I can trace a family link from Stone Forehead to most subsequent Keepers, including the the current Arrow Keeper, Bill Red Hat, but I cannot trace the family connection back to White Thunder (Gray Thunder). I suspect that White Thunder was related to Stone Forehead, but can find nothing to support this. Can anyone help?
Gary
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