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Post by grigoryev on May 11, 2017 16:35:28 GMT -5
SECOND GENERATION – Clown Horse, son of Old Man Afraid of His Horses and unknown
B. Clown Horse, aka Tasunke Heyoka (b. Feb. 1842 - d. unknown) Married: date unknown, Edna ----- (b. Oct. 1846 – d. 1 July 1934), daughter of unknown Known children: 1. Frank Clown Horse (b. Sept. 1877 - d. 25 June 1940) Married: 1918 to Theresa ----- (b. 1883 – d. unknown), daughter of unknown Known children: unknown 2. Alma Clown Horse (b. Oct. 1883 – d. unknown) 3. Austin Clown Horse (b. June 1892 – d. unknown) 4. Benjamin Clown Horse, aka Bennie Clown Horse, (b. 31 Jan. 1898 - d. 1 Dec. 1944)
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Post by grigoryev on May 11, 2017 16:36:36 GMT -5
THIRD GENERATION – Benjamin Clown Horse, son of Clown Horse and Edna ------- C. Benjamin Clown Horse, aka Bennie Clown Horse, (b. 31 Jan. 1898 - d. 1 Dec. 1944) SSN 503-12-3831 1st Married: date unknown, Julia Dirt Kettle (b. 15 Jan./27 Mar. 1899 - d. 15/16 Oct. 1969), daughter of Paul Dirt Kettle and Alice Eagle Woman Known children: 1. Esther Clown Horse (b. 1922 – d. unknown) 2. Celeste Clown Horse (b. 2 Aug. 1923 – d. 17 July 2007) 3. Scholastic Clown Horse {female} (b. 2 Jan. 1924 – d. unknown) 2nd Married (after divorce): date unknown, Fannie Red Bull (b. unknown – d. unknown), daughter of unknown Known children: 1. Florence Clown Horse {male} (b. 4 April 1926 – d. unknown) 2. Goldie B. Clown Horse {female} (b. 20 October 1928 – d. unknown) 3. Anna Laura Clown Horse (b. 1930 – d. unknown) Read more: oyate1.proboards.com/thread/1748#ixzz3gXSRUo5x
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Post by grigoryev on Jun 21, 2017 15:22:36 GMT -5
Old Man Afraid of His Horses (b. 1802 - d. 1887)
Are there any data on the father and brothers of this famous leader?
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Post by kingsleybray on Jun 21, 2017 16:33:38 GMT -5
Old Man Afraid of His Horse -- his birth year was probably 1807 or 1808. He died in about October of 1889. His father had the family name Tasunke Kokipapi, inherited from his father. He was also called Black Spotted Calf. Yellow Eagle (c. 1810-1870), the Hunkpatila band chief, was a 'brother' of Old Man Afraid in the Lakota sense. Their families had been linked for several generations before this, each Yellow Eagle and Afraid of His Horse being 'brothers'. This goes back to the early 1700s. I have not been able to find anything about other brothers. Believe me, I've tried.
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Post by grigoryev on Jun 23, 2017 3:56:04 GMT -5
Dear Kingsley. You in Oglala band structure in 1804 mention 3 subgroup of Payabya: 1. Never Misses, headman White Rock 2. Southern Nation, headman Lives in Rock 3. Black Calf, headman Hard to Understand.
Black Calf is not a sub-band of the Old Man Affraid?
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Post by kingsleybray on Jun 23, 2017 5:33:03 GMT -5
The Payabya underwent changes in the mid-19th century. The Southern Nation sub-band or wicoti joined with another wicoti, the Skokpa, and so formed a new band or tiyospaye, the Tapisleca. The Never Misses and Black Calf sub-bands over the 1850s and 60s merged in with Old Man Afraid of His Horse's immediate following, losing their distinct identities.
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Post by grigoryev on Jun 24, 2017 3:59:39 GMT -5
Old Man Afraid of His Horse -- his birth year was probably 1807 or 1808. He died in about October of 1889. His father had the family name Tasunke Kokipapi, inherited from his father. He was also called Black Spotted Calf. Yellow Eagle (c. 1810-1870), the Hunkpatila band chief, was a 'brother' of Old Man Afraid in the Lakota sense. Their families had been linked for several generations before this, each Yellow Eagle and Afraid of His Horse being 'brothers'. This goes back to the early 1700s. I have not been able to find anything about other brothers. Believe me, I've tried. Tasunke Kokipapi (aka Black Spotted Calf) and sub-band Payabya Black Calf (headman Hard to Understand) is not related? Maybe this is another name for the natal tiyoshpaye Old Man Affraid named so by the name of his father?
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Mike
Junior Member
Former name was Ghost Eagle
Posts: 50
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Post by Mike on Mar 20, 2018 1:26:00 GMT -5
Who is Man Afraid of His Horses? Do you mean They Fear Even His Horses? I think that it what everyone means to say
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 1:39:35 GMT -5
After all explenation that Historian gift about traslation of the name Thasunke Khokiphapi this question is look lake strange
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peter
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by peter on Mar 31, 2018 9:34:11 GMT -5
After all explenation that Historian gift about traslation of the name Thasunke Khokiphapi this question is look lake strange Attachments:
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Post by grahamew on Mar 31, 2018 10:13:30 GMT -5
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Mike
Junior Member
Former name was Ghost Eagle
Posts: 50
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Post by Mike on Apr 6, 2018 23:46:11 GMT -5
Every chance I get, I like to show off my ancestral name. Man whose horses are feared was one of my grandfathers. Young Man Afraid of His Horses, one of his brother's names is Tashunk Kokipa pi (Tah shoon-kah Ko-kee-pah pee). In English the name is translated as Man Afraid of His Horses. What I said above was simply a joke about how I (and many others) prefer 'They Fear Even His Horses' rather than 'Man Afraid of His Horses'. I think it was lost in translation that I was asking who the man was. Every native reference I have come across talking about this man and his son, his name means that people are so afraid of him that they also are afraid of his horses, I have even read this explained specifically this way (I forget which book). So in my opinion, to say Man Afraid of His Horses is saying that he was scared of his own horses, which is disingenuous to the true meaning and disrespectful to these men's legacies. It's not intended that way, but that's what it does. I know there is no exact translation to English, but the common name used now in English completely misrepresents the original meaning of the man's name and it is so pervasive and has been used by even well respected scholars and historians, so much that it will never be changed, but still, it is a meaning that is completely opposite of the original meaning. It takes a brave man who was so feared by people that they were scared of his horses and turns him into a 'coward' who is afraid of his own horse. So regardless of the exact words used for his name in English (or German or any other language) it should still convey that other people were afraid of this man's horses. 'Man Afraid of His Horses' does not do that, it's the opposite. Here in this thread we have a descendent of this man and even he uses 'Man Whose Horses Are Feared'. Now above when he says "In English the name is translated as Man Afraid of His Horses." he simply means that many English speaking people have translated it as that, he is not saying that is the correct translation, especially as he himself uses 'Man Whose Horses Are Feared'.Two completely different meanings. I have always used They Fear Even His Horses, but after reading what a descendent of his refers to him as, I will now use 'Man Whose Horses Are Feared' because A)his own family call him that, B) it is a nicer sounding name in English and it works better when saying 'Old Man Whose Horses Are Feared' and 'Young Man Whose Horses Are Feared'. I'd love to see others use this also, but I won't make it an issue, just pointing out the obvious.
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Post by Piya Icage Win on Apr 30, 2018 5:54:09 GMT -5
This is cool. I am a descendant of Oldman Afraid of His Horse. 5th generation in wasicu way to be exact. Tasunke Kokipapi had a son named Clown Horse that was one of the 6 children he had from his first marriage. Clown Horse Married Edna and had 4 children, one of them being Benjamin Clown Horse. Benjamin then had 7 children, one being Celeste Clown Horse, who was from his first marriage to Julie Dirt Kettle. Celeste Clown Horse Married Owen Brings and had 6 children, one being Harriet Brings. Harriet then had 2 children Children, of them being me Piya Icage Win or Ailine M.
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Post by Dietmar on Apr 30, 2018 7:38:39 GMT -5
Welcome Ailine/Piya Icage Win,
great to have you here. And thank you for sharing details of your family history.
Best wishes
Dietmar
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Post by Dietmar on May 3, 2018 16:13:54 GMT -5
Piya Icage Win,
may I ask, have you ever come across a publically available portrait of Clown Horse?
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