Post by oyateunderground on Jan 11, 2009 8:08:40 GMT -5
I was wondering the same thing when I saw this picture in Donovan Sprague's book. I am learning more and more. Abel Swan and, I believe, the Cheyenne Woman side of the Walter Swan clan lived not in Cherry Creek but in Whitehorse. He is buried there. I spent yesterday interviewing my aunt, my mother's sister. I got some photos of Abel Swan's protrait drawings of local Lakota living in Whitehorse. I know the Swan known as "Little Swan" was a Wintercount keeper also. I am an artist, my name is James Starkey a.k.a. Wanbli WiWohkpe
I`m a bit confused because I´ve been told that Walter Swan was the son of Cheyenne Woman, the third wife of Swan III. According to my information Walter married Mary (Long Dog) Swan. They lived in Whitehorse. Are you also related to David Swan?
Post by oyateunderground on Jan 12, 2009 23:08:42 GMT -5
Walter is the son of Cheyenne Woman and Paul Swan. Mary Long Log and Walter Swan are the parents of Abel Swan. I do not know David Swan. Here is a video we just made interviewing Abel Swan's daughter Ophelia: vimeo.com/2808463 In December 2008, a Winter Count created by Chief White Horse was returned to the People. My Sister Jackie mailed me a copy. The interpreter for Chief White Swan was Harvey Left Handed Bear, our Great Grandfather.
Around the same time, my Cousin Karla invited us to a Lakota Language class she holds at her home. The idea was born to interview her Mother Ophelia. karla drove us to Scotland, South dakota to her Mother's home. Ophelia made a wonderful meal for us, and this documentary is the result of that memorable visit.
I see our Family coming together. I see Lakota People Healing through Relationships. The leaf does not choose its root.
Post by kingsleybray on Apr 27, 2009 6:17:53 GMT -5
Another White Swan!
Emily Levine and I have been pooling our Josephine Waggoner information on the White Swan family. Her Waggoner White Swan ms states that "White Swan, the second" was the man born about 1780, and that he lived to be one hundred years old, dying at the confluence of Cheyenne River and Cherry Creek in 1880. I don't think this need alter subsequent White Swan generations, but it indicates my hunch was wrong, namely that White Swan I died in the 1840s.
Importantly the new ms states that this man's father was also called White Swan, Maga Ska, and that the father was "aged" in ca. 1800.
So, my reading of the generations now looks like:
White Swan I - born in frame 1725-50
White Swan II - born ca. 1780*, dies ca. 1880
White Swan III - born ca. 1810, dies 1866
White Swan IV (Paul Swan) - 1836-1900
* Josephine actually gives a winter count date for the year of White Swan II's birth - Tukteniwanitipisni, No Winter Camp. Several winter counts have this entry, attached to calendar years in the 1777-79 slot. So I think it's safe to assume that he was born a year or two before 1780, just before the terrible smallpox epidemic of 1780-81.
Post by kingsleybray on Jun 15, 2009 16:18:14 GMT -5
glad to be of some help, oyateunderground. Echoing something Emily Levine posted a couple of weeks ago, what's really encouraging about this site is the ways in which historians and Indian people are helping each other - each bringing something to the table that's helping to flesh out the picture.
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 27, 2009 14:41:50 GMT -5
James, let me repeat Dietmar's welcome. It is indeed an honor to have a member of the Maga Ska family here. If you have any observations or remarks about what we've written, please let us know. And perhaps you can help us as we try to come to a better understanding of Lakota life and history
I have bits and pieces of info. I have always been told that their was some Swans in Cherry Creek and in WhiteHorse. my line comes from WhiteHorse. My father is Orlando Swan 1941-1972. My Grandfather is Murphy Caleb Swan 1905-1948. Married to Pearl Miner 1913-2003 and Great Grandfather Walter Swan born Oct 1863 in Montana? married to Mary Long Log 1878-? and his Father was Cheif White Swan (Magaska) 1836-1840? - 1890-1905? his wife was Mary Cheyenne Woman 1839-? thats pretty much what I have: They named the Jail in Cheyenne River after Walter Swan. Their is another James Swan in Cherry Creek.....and I'm told somewhere back in the old days one of the Swan boys married a lady in Rosebud....and there's a line of swans there....that are distance related....I havent reserched that yet...I have always wanted to meet Donovin Sprague....I have both his books on Cheyenne River and Rosebud Sioux Tribes...My mother is enrolled at Rosbud I'm enrolled at Cheyenne River. she is a Marshall (upper Cut Meat)...There is a Swan involved in thier somewhere....LOL..Scarry. So if anyone has that linage that would be great....on my Grandmas side...it goes her mom Juilia Whitewoman, her dad (Hotoncah)? Hawk Big Voice. Then on the marshall side. grandmas father is Solomon Marshall his mother is Josephhine Blackhorse Doughter of Chief Spotted Tail ( Sinte Gleska) and his parents are Tangle Hair and mom is Walks With Pipe.....I have some more details to these names if anyone is interested also if anyone has more info that would be great.
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 27, 2009 16:43:33 GMT -5
We would be interested to have any more details, James. I was interested that you mentioned that a Swan boy married someone from Rosebud, so that there's a Swan lineage there. Do you have any of the details?
Also, do you have any knowledge of an Oglala connection at all? Reason I ask, is that the famous Bull Bear, a leading Oglala chief in the 1820-1841 period, was the son of a man named White Swan, Maga Ska. He must have been born in the middle 1700's. He was an Oglala too, but I've wondered if there was a connection to your family's line. The Bull Bears today are around Kyle on the Pine Ridge Res. Their band was called Kiyuksa or Kiyaksa, one account is that the band (maybe then just a large-ish family) originally came from the Miniconjou. My best guess would be that that was around the 1760s.
Must be my day for this....I have learned more today then in the last couple years.....after my last post, I called information on a Swan in St Francis (Rosebud). The swan's their are white from Nebraska. and she didn't know of any link to Swan's from Cheyenne river. I still don't know for sure if a Swan boy still didn't Mary someone from Rosebud tho....It seemed like a strong story in my family history. But the Swan lady I talked to, her Maiden name is Marshell......Shes knows allot of my moms family....whats the odds?.....I don't know of any connections of swans in Pine Ridge tho.
Found this photograph of an elderly White Swan, there's no mention of this man being Miniconjou, just Lakota so I am not 100% is this the White Swan of this thread, although there is some resembling with the other pictures posted here...