Spotted Eagle

[brock]

I was interviewing Doug War Eagle about Waglula's burial site which is located on Leo Combing's homestead site near Bear Creek. He happened to mention in the course of the conversation that Combing had taken care of Spotted Eagle during Spotted Eagle's last days at Combing's homestead cabin (which is no longer there). I asked him if that was because Spotted Eagle was family and he said not at the time. However after his death there was a marriage to a family member so technically they became in-laws in a post mortem fashion.

So I asked if they weren't family at the time why would he want to take care of him. He said Combing took care of Spotted Eagle because he was a respected elder and had looked out for the Crazy Horse family throughout his life. So he was paying him back.

[grahamew]

I don't think any of those identifications are correct.

[charlie]

Naiches, wonderful photo! But i think that the identifications are totally wrong. To me, no one of the three famous chiefs appears in the image.

[naiches2]

Hi Charlie!
I Agree. Simply wished to please You with an interesting picture. On mine these unknown persons look rather nice.

[aurelia]

Spotted Eagle was the brother of my great, great grandfather Fights Thunder who was the Pipe Carrier for our band. He is buried at Thunder Butte on the Cheyenne River Reservation. My mother and her brothers and sisters were all named for incidents either during or after the Little Big Horn. My Aunt Helen's name was "Comes Home Hard" so we would remember that our grandpa Hump's wounding and how painful it was for him to travel. My Aunt Alberta's name was "Spotted Eagle Woman" after Spotted Eagle. I have been looking at the names of the children who were born soon after my family were moved to Cheyenne River. We still have a very large family who knows that we are related and how we are.

[brock]

Aurelia,
Wow! So you would know of Bear With Horns.
Interesting what you say. I will reintroduce the info to Doug because I wondered about that as you can see by the posting above. Maybe I caught him sleeping (lol). He has a tree that takes up reams and reams of paper together with the probates. I'm sure you know who he is. I will say that our conversation was really never about Spotted Eagle, it was about Combing's cabin and the graves and he happened to mention Spotted Eagle so being a information junkie nerdnik I had to pursue. He got part of his info from Terry Red Bear who I guess has always lived out in Bear Creek. By what you've given he will probably recognize who you are too. I have a picture of Fights The Thunder from a post card from the family that I used in the documentaries that somehow survived the theft when they went to tend to Peter Talks when he was sick 1966. Unfortunately most of the photos were last seen out at Anne Varland's Varieties (second hand store) in Faith.

[aurelia]

You know I may be wrong about were Spotted Eagle is buried. I'll have to ask my brother who knows exactly where it is. I would love to have a picture of Fights The Thunder I have two pictures of his daughter, my great grandmother Grows In A Day aka Lucy Poor Buffalo. When she was young about late 20's early 30's and when she was very old before she left us. I was five when the picture was taken. I got alot of my information from my grandmother, my mother, and my aunts. I have always tried to varify this information with other research and other stories people have told me and things I have read. As for Bear With Horns the story was that he was killed during the Battle of Little Big Horn and that this was told to his mother, Fights The Thunder's wife Pazala. She along with her sister (the name is lost) with my great grandmother (Unci )(who was a little girl) went looking for him. He was suppose to have been put in a tipi I'm not sure if they actually found him, my Unci saw a little puppy that she cried for and because they didn't want her fussing the picked it up and then left. There are other stories about the name being given to various members of our family one who recived the name was killed in WWI and anoter was wounded in Viet Nam (Doug's Uncle) so my Aunt said that the name will no longer be given to anyone else. I saw his name in a list of Lakota who were killed this list was made by White Bull. Because I know many of these names I look at the old census roles and as I find more information I have been able to put together other information. I think of it as a large jig saw puzzle that has a lot of empty space. When I find a piece that pulls more information it gives me such a sense of joy that I am doing this for my family and our grandchildren so they will never forget who they are. Pictures are part of that puzzle and I try to collect them and share them with the rest of the family.

[brock]

Aurelia,

I will send the picture to Dietmar so he can post it. It is from pictures from a member of your family that allowed them to be put into the DVDs about the family.

I know about the other Bear With Horns. The first was Fight's the Thunder's grandson and the second was his great grandson. I have ridden in the great grandson's truck. ;-)

In my talks with family members I have learned that the original Bear With Horns had an octagon shaped Sharps Breech Loading Rifle. He was wounded at the battle and gave his rifle to Crazy Horse. He lived four more days when he was helped back to Slim Buttes by Poor Buffalo and Fights The Thunder. Fights The Thunders young boy Old Eagle who later married Iron Cedar was also with them.

One more thing I am working with Floyd, Doug, and Don on a book on the family history. And during my talks over the past nine years Floyd, Doug, and Don described Fights The Thunder's pipe. It had a red catlinite bowl with a red catlinite stem. The bowl and stem were two separate pieces that fit. It was in their Grandpa's cedar chest that was stolen. Hopefully someday it will be recovered. The Sharp's rifle that Bear With Horns gave to Crazy Horse was in the chest too. They tell me they found it was sold to a sheriff out of Faith in 1966 by a family member. The sheriff resigned soon after the family filed an FBI report on it. They say the sheriff died years later and the rifle was inherited by his daughter who last they knew of lived in Wyoming. Or maybe you already know that and it's old news (lol).

It is wonderful and surprising to meet one of the family here. Brock is my middle name. The family gave me a Lakota name but I am white. I am from the west. My Lakota name is Cante Iste Ewonke (Sees Through the Eye of His Heart).

Posted Later That Morning: Aurelia, I haven't talked to Doug yet but it just came to me. Are you the second eldest sister of the last Bear With Horns?

[Dietmar]

Here´s the photograph of Fights The Thunder sent by Brock:


Fights The Thunder

I tried to blow it up a bit:



Great picture, thank you for sharing it Brock!

[aurelia]

Brock,
What's funny is Aurelia is my middle name also... Doug, Floyd, and Donny will know me by Mary Lee... I'm very close to them and was given the name Grows In A Day the daughter of Fights The Thunder... The boys are my cousins much younger then me. I'm so glad to get this picture and to hear what you are doing with our family. I understand their dad Blaine's younger brother has the name Bear With Horns. I also think I know who stole the trunk because the same person went out to the Poor Buffalo Ranch and took a lot of things. I need to get in touch with them. Just for your information High Bear father of Poor Buffalo was Miniconju and a relative of Crazy Horse's family... This is what my mother and aunt told me but because my mother died when I was a 16 I never could find out exactly how.. She was very close to our Lala Pete Talks who would come and stay with us and tell her stories. Lala Pete and Poor Buffalo were closely related but again I'm not exactly sure how... Maybe the boys have moe information about this. Poor Buffalo was a powerful medicine man who had the bear medicine...

[brock]

Aurelia,

Opps! I guessed wrong on who you were. Forgive me! I don't think we have ever met. But I am still really really happy you are here.

We should start a thread about the family and share information. Maybe we could call it Peter Talks under Minicoujou. I have a picture of your Lala Pete with Grandma Mary in front of their cabin. Maybe you already have a copy. I don't know.

Floyd is 55, Doug is 51, and Donny is 48. You may be older but I think they're catching up and might pass you age-wise soon. I know they will pass me up soon. Once you get to a certain age you begin to think young again. ;-)

I am happy that you got a copy of the picture. My working with your family is from a vision on Bear Butte. I used to just read history books on people in your family and skip anything that had to do with the culture and spirituality until my dead father spoke to me in that vision and told me "to open my heart". It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Sometimes when people study history they get into numbers, statistics, on and on and forget that these were real people with real heartbeats and emotions. Minds of their own that defy being categorized in some file and I was becoming guilty of this.
So I studied the culture all I could. When I went back to Bear Butte the following Memorial Day in 2001 someone heard me and gave me Doug's number. When I went to see him (Floyd and Donny were there and they had Doug and Donny's Mom come up to see me, she gave me a real hard look...lol) they told me they knew I was coming. They had been told in sweat four days before that someone from the west was coming to help.
When I heard that I thought I was in movie or something. ;-)
Then they invited me into a sweat to see if my heart was good. I was really excited so I helped Floyd with the wood and ran and gathered as much as I could. I can remember Bentley In The Woods saying that I was too excited and that 'it scared him'.
The sweat was a great experience and they sang Lakota. Bentley stayed outside and brought in the rocks on a pitchfork. After four rounds we came out. Then we went inside and had soup. At the time they still hadn't told me if they thought my heart was good enough. And then I happened to say that I wished I knew Lakota so I could have sang along. That's when Bentley said, "They don't let me go in there, because I always sing Merle Haggard."
I couldn't stop laughing at what he said. Partly because it was so funny and partly out of relief because I knew it meant that I was accepted.
So I am equally grateful for the chance to work with your family. The street runs two ways. ;-)
We both know that it is a hard road to tell your family history in the face of so much misinformation that has been around before either of us was even born. But all we can do is tell it honestly and eventually enough ears will open.

The only story I know about Poor Buffalo is that he had medicine that kept Bear With Horns insides from falling out of his stomach wound at the battle and helped him live for the four days it took to get to Slim Buttes where his family was so he could see them before he passed.
He would find that medicine while doing a sweat. During the sweat he would go outside and growl and act like a bear and go into the shrubs and find the proper roots and dig them up and let a nearly unconscious Bear With Horns smell them and make him alert again so they could travel.

[aurelia]

Brock,
I'm glad your involved with those boys.. Yes I am older then they are. Their Dad was one of my favorite Uncles. He always stayed with my mother and I when he was young and would be at the Old Cheyenne Agency. Their grandfather, who we called Lala Ed, also stayed with us when he was on the Tribal Council.

I would love to get the picture of Lala Pete and Grandma Talks. I'm named after her (her English name) she was very close to my mother. She was the mother of my grandfather Douglas Dupris. I don't know if you knew that she was married to Edward Dupris and after he died she then married Lala Pete. From what I understand Lala Pete and Edward were relatives and when my great grandfather Edward knew he was dying he asked to see Lala Pete (he worked for him) and asked him to marry Grandma Talks and take care of our Grandpa Andrew and Grandma Marcella. (this was told to me by our Auntie Mona Red Horse whose mother was Marcella.

The great thing about this new relationship is you're getting information from both Uncle Blaine's boys and now from what we know and the ability to combine these stories there is a clearer picture emerging. This is what is so fantastic about looking at our past.. I knew Uncle Blaine had a lot of information and was very sad when he died without my ever getting a chance to visit more with him. I have lived off the reservation for a long time but keep close contact with our relatives. I think a thread would be great, but not just one. We could have a second with Fights The Thunder or just keep the Spotted Eagle one going. I can tell you a lot more about what a little girl's and a woman's perspective of these times because they come from Grows In A Day. We also need to try and get the Red Bird information maybe Uncle Blaine's boys will know that also. I know that Auntie Clara High Elk knows a lot and she needs to be interviewed because she is getting old and has been sick. She knows a lot about Spotted Eagle and could fill in a lot of gaps. Did you ever have an opportunity to meet Carlos Red Legs? He was her son.

I'll give you these names for you to find out how significant they are - according to Carlos they were all closely related to Spotted Eagle and Fight The Thunder. They are Charging First, Little Fox, Pretty Fox, Eagle Man, Little Fish.

[charlie]

Jinlian, in a other site, give the follow identification of the back row of the 1881 photho:
standing from L to R: LOUIS SITTING BULL (nepew of Sitting Bull) - CHASE WALKING - YELLOW THUNDER - FOOL BEAR - BRAVE THUNDER
If this is right, the famous chiefs HUMP and SPOTTED EAGLE are not present in this image.
I think that they are only important warrior and not chiefs.
Any info about they?

[grahamew]

I wondered if the tall guy was the man later known as John Sans Arc, about whom I know nothing, except for a photo in which he stands next to Red Skirt

[gregor]

Sept 6, 2009 17:11:45 GMT -5 Dietmar said:

Grahame was the first who assumed that Spotted Eagle was standing in the back row in the group photo by Haynes in 1881.

Today I found at ebay some good scans of the photo. Interestingly we can see at on the back that indeed Spotted Eagle was indentified by Haynes.

Does anyone see Hump in the picture though?

Hi Folks,

I would like to resume the discussion regarding Louis Sitting Bull in the known Haynes photo “Five noted chiefs”. Until recently I also thought that it shows Louis SB in the backrow. Now I'm not so sure. I have once again looked at the data regardind Sitting Bull's surrender.
On July 19, 1881 surrender at Ft Buford. On July 29, 1881 the Hunkpapa board the General Sherman to be transferred to Fort Yates. On July 30 or August 1, intermediate stop at Mandan / Bismarck. On August 2, 1881 the General Sherman arrives at Standing Rock / Fort Yates. Some days later Goff takes the first known Photograph of Sitting Bull.

Now to the Haynes photo with “Louis Sitting Bull”. The photo is one of a series of photos. Known to me are the 5 following photos. Three photos with the 5 “Noted Sioux Indian chiefs” and two “landscape” photos.





The landscape photos show a camp circle and a gathering of Lakota. The last photo reminds me strongly of a give-away-celebration.




It is well known, that around 1881 the U.S. government attempted to suppress the annual sun dances. But the Lakotas were so resourceful to exploit the 4th of July as a combined dance- and give-away-celebration. This has been repeatedly documented for Pine Ridge and other reservations. And I could imagine that this was also the case at Standing Rock.

This “landscape” photo reminds me very firmly of a give-away-celebration. The two “landscape- pictures” carry the caption "Ft Yates, Indian prisoner camp, July 81". The assumption that this photo shows a give-away-feast (on July 4, 1881) and that the other photos were shot on the same day, shatters the further assumption that it might be Louis Sitting Bull (see data above). In contemporary newspaper articles and documents it is said, that Sitting Bull surrendered with his family, and the step-sons are mentioned. Louis could then not have been photographed in July at Standing Rock / Fort Yates. Unless he had surrendered previously, for example with Gall or Rain-in-the-face. However, of this is nothing known to me.
If we look at the person "Louis SB" in the Haynes photo, then he seems to have relatively short hair. In the picture of Louis that comes closest to the Haynes Photo (a Barry photo of 1884?), Louis clearly has longer hair, which is divided on the crown. And there is one more conspicuous thing. In all known photographs of the Sitting Bull family, no one is posing with a "German-Silver-Cross", while other items are shown repeatedly. I now tend to believe that Louis Sitting Bull is not shown in the photo. What is your opinion on this matter?