|
Post by Californian on Dec 31, 2018 20:42:55 GMT -5
I own this image (large format, early 1900's albumen print - no photographer's trademark shown) - caption says "Chief WhetStone Sioux Indian" - has anyone come across this image and much more, knows anything about a "Chief Whetstone" ? There was a Whetstone Agency on the Missouri as well as there was a person named Oscar Whetstone, but the latter's portrait does not resemple the man in this particular image.
Please forgive me the smartphone images - my scanner gave out.
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Jan 1, 2019 14:21:57 GMT -5
I own this image (large format, early 1900's albumen print - no photographer's trademark shown) - caption says "Chief WhetStone Sioux Indian" - has anyone come across this image and much more, knows anything about a "Chief Whetstone" ? There was a Whetstone Agency on the Missouri as well as there was a person named Oscar Whetstone, but the latter's portrait does not resemple the man in this particular image.
Please forgive me the smartphone images - my scanner gave out.
I did find some information, but not sure if it pertains to the right person 1900 Census - South Dakota - Shannon County, Pine Ridge Agency - ED 46, page 26A, lines 12-18 Whetstone, age 62 (head of household) Cloud Ribs, age 50 (wife) Joseph Whetstone, age 18 (son) William Arapahoe, age 18 (stepson) Jennie Arapahoe, age 10 (stepdaughter) Rosa Arapahoe, age 7 (stepdaughter) William Whetstone, age 9 (son) Thanks in advance to anyone assisting to identify the person in the photograph.
|
|
|
Post by Historian on Jan 7, 2019 10:52:23 GMT -5
Portrait of an Oglala Lakota man known as Oscar Whetstone, while in Washington D.C. in 1907.
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Jan 8, 2019 15:38:35 GMT -5
thanks historian - that's the man I saw too, Oscar WhetStone and it is clearly not the same man. On the tribal census for Pine Ridge agency there was no son mentioned named Oscar, but given that agewise by his looks he could fit into that particular family that I found (1900 Census)
1900 Census - South Dakota - Shannon County, Pine Ridge Agency - ED 46, page 26A, lines 12-18
Whetstone, age 62 (head of household) Cloud Ribs, age 50 (wife) Joseph Whetstone, age 18 (son) William Arapahoe, age 18 (stepson) Jennie Arapahoe, age 10 (stepdaughter) Rosa Arapahoe, age 7 (stepdaughter) William Whetstone, age 9 (son)
I also managed to create a better scan
|
|
|
Post by wolfgang on Jan 9, 2019 17:37:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Jan 15, 2019 9:45:20 GMT -5
Thanks Wolfgang. There were many Eagle Bears, most prominently a delegate to Washington in the 1920ies, but he is not the man shown here. Perhaps his father? Hard to say which name is more accurate for the man in Californian´s picture.
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Oct 13, 2019 23:53:58 GMT -5
hi Dietmar and Wolfgang there is an 1898 photograph by F.A. Rinehart titled Eagle Bear, Sioux - judging from the handwriting on the postcard, it is more contemporary - probably added by someone at the Nebraska Historical Society (my gut feeling) - but thanks for the great find nonetheless. Thanks Wolfgang. There were many Eagle Bears, most prominently a delegate to Washington in the 1920ies, but he is not the man shown here. Perhaps his father? Hard to say which name is more accurate for the man in Californian´s picture.
|
|
|
Post by Pro Se on Jan 4, 2020 3:54:54 GMT -5
dear all, I found another photo of Chief Whetstone (not Chief Oscar Whetstone)... I am researching my paternal grandmother who was a Whetstone... namesake (hoping) and hence her maiden name... she was Native American, my father would talk about that we have “Sioux” Native American blood. but this was a bygone era, my grandmother died in her 60s, my father died when I was a teenager... so I always embraced my heritage and for years retrying to research with the internet etc... trying to verify... documenting etc... thank you to ALL... for all the work you’ve done here at this website... Josh (Bucking Bull) nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/1E05030C-79BD-4B8E-9F7A-142156204520hi Dietmar and Wolfgang there is an 1898 photograph by F.A. Rinehart titled Eagle Bear, Sioux - judging from the handwriting on the postcard, it is more contemporary - probably added by someone at the Nebraska Historical Society (my gut feeling) - but thanks for the great find nonetheless. Thanks Wolfgang. There were many Eagle Bears, most prominently a delegate to Washington in the 1920ies, but he is not the man shown here. Perhaps his father? Hard to say which name is more accurate for the man in Californian´s picture.
|
|
|
Post by Pro Se on Jan 4, 2020 4:26:48 GMT -5
Chief eagle bear and or chief whetstone... the first photo is “Last Great Gathering of the Sioux Nation” 1934 nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/7E3BF902-FE51-49A1-9901-581271267850At the webpage u can click more photos under each name... People Gray Eagle (Gauigs), Julia Blue Water, Rosie "Ecoffey" Fielder, Henry Red Bear, John Red Bear, Julia Turning Bear Eagle Bear Distribution High Eagle Bad Wound, Noah Kills Brave Red Bear, Martin Hardy, ? (Major) Black Horn Tahe Sapa Bash, Louis H. Red Cloud, James H. Drags Rope Cook, James Henry, 1857-1942 Fills the Pipe, Silas White Bull Big Crow, Susie Yellow Boy, Silas Big Crow, Susie Short Bull Tatonka Ptetschala Iron Shell nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/E5F23B08-DAD1-4F35-83D9-904087249235(Black Horse with) Eagle Bear (again you can click each name for more photos of them) nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/FC890AFD-D270-4C8E-8FD9-741436353131(Spotted Crow, William, Red Cloud, James H. with) Eagle Bear (again you can click each name for more photos of them)
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Jan 4, 2020 7:09:26 GMT -5
Welcome buckingbull, this is cropped version of the 1934 group photo showing Eagle Bear: Obviously he is the same man as in the picture with Red Cloud and Spotted Crow. I personally don´t see any resemblance to the 'Whetstone' pictures.
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Jan 4, 2020 7:45:42 GMT -5
Possibly the same Eagle Bear is in Donovin Sprague´s 'Pine Ridge Reservation' book (page 34, Arcadia Publishing): "CHIEF EAGLE BEAR (LAKOTA). Photo undated. Eagle Bear was the son of Chief Knife Chief and Follows Prairie Fire Woman. Eagle Bear married Jennie Cloud Shield. Jenny was the daughter of Cloud Shield and Martha Chasing Enemy. Eagle Bear also fought at the Little Bighorn on June 25, 1876. A daughter of Eagle Bear and Jenny Cloud Shield is Mabel Eagle Bear who married Robert Pumpkin Seed. Chief Eagle Bear is the great grandfather of Francis He Crow." On Knife Chief please see here: www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/KnifeChief.htmAccording to Thomas E. Mails, Eagle Bear was the father of Frank Fools Crow. Crazy Crow/Fools Crow was Eagle Bear´s second name.
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Jan 4, 2020 11:44:38 GMT -5
hi Buckingbull/Josh thanks for this one, a great find - this is indeed the right one as in my photograph.
The way to proceed for you would be to try to identy the name / birth and death details of the ancestor that was a fullblood Lakota, then trying to find that person on the census.
When I initially got this photograph and started to look into identifying the man depicted therein (and going from the premise that the name was indeed WhetStone) I had found the following
1900 Census - South Dakota - Shannon County, Pine Ridge Agency - ED 46, page 26A, lines 12-18
Whetstone, age 62 (head of household) Cloud Ribs, age 50 (wife) Joseph Whetstone, age 18 (son) William Arapahoe, age 18 (stepson) Jennie Arapahoe, age 10 (stepdaughter) Rosa Arapahoe, age 7 (stepdaughter) William Whetstone, age 9 (son)
The age of Whetstone would make sense, the photograph, dating to about the early 1900;s (I'd say 1910's) would depict a man in this later fifties/early sixties. The census states several children as "step children" presumably being the children of his wife Cloud Ribs from an earlier marriage.
If you could give more details I would be happy to look into this a bit closer.
Happy New Year !
dear all, I found another photo of Chief Whetstone (not Chief Oscar Whetstone)... I am researching my paternal grandmother who was a Whetstone... namesake (hoping) and hence her maiden name... she was Native American, my father would talk about that we have “Sioux” Native American blood. but this was a bygone era, my grandmother died in her 60s, my father died when I was a teenager... so I always embraced my heritage and for years retrying to research with the internet etc... trying to verify... documenting etc... thank you to ALL... for all the work you’ve done here at this website... Josh (Bucking Bull) nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/1E05030C-79BD-4B8E-9F7A-142156204520hi Dietmar and Wolfgang there is an 1898 photograph by F.A. Rinehart titled Eagle Bear, Sioux - judging from the handwriting on the postcard, it is more contemporary - probably added by someone at the Nebraska Historical Society (my gut feeling) - but thanks for the great find nonetheless.
|
|
|
Post by Pro Se on Jan 6, 2020 4:33:53 GMT -5
Welcome buckingbull, this is cropped version of the 1934 group photo showing Eagle Bear: Obviously he is the same man as in the picture with Red Cloud and Spotted Crow. I personally don´t see any resemblance to the 'Whetstone' pictures. I agree I absolutely know it isn’t a resemblance to “whetstone”. I was just throwing in the mix, as someone mentioned in a prior reply, that there are a few “Eagle Bear” in history. And again thank you Dietmar for your passion and your hunt for building up the pieces of a beautiful puzzle.
|
|
|
Post by Pro Se on Jan 6, 2020 5:13:39 GMT -5
hi Buckingbull/Josh thanks for this one, a great find - this is indeed the right one as in my photograph.
The way to proceed for you would be to try to identy the name / birth and death details of the ancestor that was a fullblood Lakota, then trying to find that person on the census.
When I initially got this photograph and started to look into identifying the man depicted therein (and going from the premise that the name was indeed WhetStone) I had found the following
1900 Census - South Dakota - Shannon County, Pine Ridge Agency - ED 46, page 26A, lines 12-18
Whetstone, age 62 (head of household) Cloud Ribs, age 50 (wife) Joseph Whetstone, age 18 (son) William Arapahoe, age 18 (stepson) Jennie Arapahoe, age 10 (stepdaughter) Rosa Arapahoe, age 7 (stepdaughter) William Whetstone, age 9 (son)
The age of Whetstone would make sense, the photograph, dating to about the early 1900;s (I'd say 1910's) would depict a man in this later fifties/early sixties. The census states several children as "step children" presumably being the children of his wife Cloud Ribs from an earlier marriage.
If you could give more details I would be happy to look into this a bit closer.
Happy New Year !
dear all, I found another photo of Chief Whetstone (not Chief Oscar Whetstone)... I am researching my paternal grandmother who was a Whetstone... namesake (hoping) and hence her maiden name... she was Native American, my father would talk about that we have “Sioux” Native American blood. but this was a bygone era, my grandmother died in her 60s, my father died when I was a teenager... so I always embraced my heritage and for years retrying to research with the internet etc... trying to verify... documenting etc... thank you to ALL... for all the work you’ve done here at this website... Josh (Bucking Bull) nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/1E05030C-79BD-4B8E-9F7A-142156204520Thank you Cali... 1) do you think in this photo, that this is a young Chief Whetstone? 2) yes my “story” is foggy. I started using ancestryCom website. I began with maternal and paternal families... when I went with my paternal grandmother, who was a Whetstone, who was from Ontario... and as a nurse she became American in NYC... anyway I was smacked into a wall. I tracked the whetstone family as the best I could; however there wasn’t any Native American that I could find. I went to other “whetstone” family members that I found in ancestryCom and they told me that they didn’t know of any Native American in the Whetstone... that they knew of. Soooo all I can know is that my grandmother also had a adopted brother, and the whetstone family told me that they did not know of anyone being adopted too. LOL while that “adopted” brother was in the Canadian census as a brother to her. I guess I have to look for birth certificates etc... anywhich I also have to look behind my grandmother’s mother...my great-grandmother... and her roots too... anyhoot... it cringes to me, to think that my story can end into another Eliz Warren, but I don’t have a Pow Wow Chow recipe book and other things she claimed :-). My Grandmother was undeniably Native American in her face... skin color... and not Caucasian which her siblings and her father were... thanks for your work and your time...
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Jan 6, 2020 11:05:23 GMT -5
hi hi Buckingbull/Josh thanks for your feedback. Carrying indigenous American ancestry for someone with long established ancestry on this continent is a true possibility. History teaches us, that many of the early trappers and fur traders had Native American wives or fathered children with Native American women and such offspring continued to intermarry either with within the tribes their mothers originated from thus transferring caucasian DNA to the latter and also viceversa. To state some examples - Dr. Charles Eastman and also Marie McLaughlin - wife of agent James McLaughlin both were part caucasian. Perhaps a DNA test among members of your family might provide you with the clarity - the MtDNA is carried in the female lineage, thus you would need to establish an uninterrupted female link from a living female family member to the suspected Native American female ancestor. On the other hand, the name Whetstone, is a well established surname in Great Britain and the link to Native American ancestry could be a myth. Going to your first question about the man in the image, if he was the same as Whetstone in my image, I am inclined to say no, that it was not the same person. Wishing you good luck in resolving this intriguing family mystery.
|
|