natethegreat
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Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
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Post by natethegreat on Dec 14, 2018 18:18:10 GMT -5
Does anyone know much about this man? He became the most influential Chihenne Chief after the death of Cuchillo Negro. In his early 30's he overtook Old Nana as the premier Chihenne leader. Not much else is known. Are there any pictures? Did he sign any treaties? I know he led in Victorios War and died tragically at the Battle of Tres Castilles.
Victorio. It seems like this man has the mystique of another famous Warrior. Crazy Horse.
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Post by cinemo on Dec 16, 2018 14:15:20 GMT -5
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Post by jasper4 on Dec 20, 2018 14:27:16 GMT -5
Does anyone know much about this man? He became the most influential Chihenne Chief after the death of Cuchillo Negro. In his early 30's he overtook Old Nana as the premier Chihenne leader. Not much else is known. Are there any pictures? Did he sign any treaties? I know he led in Victorios War and died tragically at the Battle of Tres Castilles. Victorio. It seems like this man has the mystique of another famous Warrior. Crazy Horse. Well the book references are valid. Yet Biduyah Victorio (c. 1820–1880) was an Apache warrior known as an intelligent and feared fighter. He proved his military cunning by leading small groups of warriors—often consisting of no more than 35 to 50 fighters—in triumphant resistance to American and Mexican troops. In October of 1880 he was eventually captured by Mexican soldiers at Tres Castillos in the state of Chihuahua in Mexico. Killing himself, rather than letting his enemies take him alive, Victorio left behind the legacy of his resistance to the forced movement of Native Americans onto reservations. Rose to Tribal Leader Victorio was born around 1820 in the Black Range of New Mexico. It was a rugged region of mountain and desert that might have seemed rather stark and barren to outsiders, but the Native American group that Victorio belonged to thrived upon the landscape. Victorio was a member of the Eastern Chiricahua Apaches, otherwise known as the Warm Springs or Mimbreno Apaches. The Apaches that Victorio belonged to were first united in 1837 by Mangas Coloradas near the Gila River in south-western New Mexico. Little is known about Victorio's early life, but it can be assumed that he spent some of his life learning to be a warrior, fighting against the encroaching white people and other enemy tribes who all fought to keep the best land and supplies. Young Native Americans, at the time, had to prove their worthiness to be called warriors by fighting against such people and demonstrating their military prowess in battle, something that Victorio must have done well. short source encyclopedia.com
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natethegreat
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Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Dec 27, 2018 17:35:25 GMT -5
It seems like Victorio wanted to live as a peaceful indian, but did not want to live at San Carlos. He made his mind up and decided that he would live free until he died. It is amazing what he accomplished with 4o or 50 warriors. I believe Victorio is the greatest Apache war leader in history and one of the greatest war leaders in Native American history.
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chi1
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Post by chi1 on Jan 2, 2019 18:26:30 GMT -5
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Post by gregor on Apr 17, 2019 4:03:51 GMT -5
(James) Kaywaykla and his mother Gouyen were among the few survivors of the Tres Castillo massacre in 1880, when Victorio and many Chihenne (Warm Springs) Apaches were slaughtered by Mexicans. Kaywaykla described his experiences to former teacher Eve Ball, who laid down the memoirs in the book "In the Days of Victorio: Recollections of Warm Springs Apache". Kaywaykla visited schools in Carlisle and Fort Sill from 1887 to 1892 and learned the printer handcraft. In a foreword, Kaywaykla writes:
A word from the Narrator
Until I was about ten years old I did not know that people died except by violence. That is because I am an Apache, a Warm Springs Apache, whose first vivid memories are of being driven from our reservation near Ojo Caliente with fire and sword.
As I tell this story, I am the sole survivor of the Massacre of Tres Castillos in which our great leader, Chief Victorio, fired his last bullet before taking his own life, and in which his band of almost four hundred people was nearly exterminated. Among the seventeen who escaped death or slavery were my mother and myself. She managed to make her way to Nana, a chief whom I will call Grandfather but white men would call my great uncle. It was Nana about whom the survivors assembled before making their desperate flight to the Sierra Madre. Our warriors were away on a raid for ammunition when the attack occurred, but later they joined Nana, a few at a time.
Victorio had killed many people, but the count was small in comparison to the number of lives Nana exacted in retaliation for Victorio’s death. This was conceded at one time by Geronimo and also by Juh, a Nednhi chief, who terrorized southern Arizona for years.
From the time that we, as peaceful noncombatants, were driven from our reservation until we were herded aboard a train at Holbrook, Arizona, and shipped to Florida in 1886, we had been hunted through the forests and plains of our own land as though we were wild animals.
I have read widely and am familiar with the military reports about my people and with the records of the historians. Some of these records have been set down with sympathy and accuracy. I respect the historians’ attempts to record the deeds of my people. These men, even as I am doing, have written either what they saw or were told by people on whose word they relied.
For twenty-seven years my people were prisoners of war. For several of those years I was a student at Carlisle Indian School in Pennsylvania. When I returned to my people they had been moved from Florida via Mount Vernon Barracks, Alabama, to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Some of the older ones were dead, among them Nana. Kaytennae, my stepfather, had been Nana’s companion for years, and had taken over his office as historian. Kaytennae, Mother, and Grandmother were teaching the young of our tribe the old stories and traditions.
I married Dorothy Naiche, daughter of the Chiricahua chief, Naiche, and therefore was closely associated with this leader for years. Chief Loco was my relative also, and I heard his version of events. I knew also Geronimo, who dictated his experiences to G. M. Barrett, with Asa Daklugie, son of Chief Juh, interpreting. Jason Betzinez, though a mature man, had been in Carlisle with me, as had Jasper Kanseah, and all of us sought to preserve the history of our peoples.
I say peoples, though the White Eyes designated the members of all four different Apache bands as Chiricahua. This was an error, for only the tribes of Cochise and Chihuahua were true Chiricahua. In our own tongue we are Chihinne — Red People. This does not refer to the color of our skins, but to a band of red clay drawn across our faces. Juh was chief of the Nednhi Apaches, whose stronghold was in the Sierra Madre of Mexico. Geronimo was leader, but not chief of the Bedonkohes whose territory was around the headwaters of the Gila. Though closely associated, we were distinct groups.
Of the Apaches taken to Florida, very few are living as I tell this story. On the Mescalero Apache Reservation in New Mexico there are three: Eugene Chihuahua, son of Chief Chihuahua, a Chiricahua; Helen Chato, widow of Scout Chato; and Sam Kenoi, son of Gordo, called “Fatty” by the White Eyes. At Apache, Oklahoma, are Talbot Goody and his wife, who was an infant when taken to Florida; David Chinny and his wife, and myself. All of us are advanced in years. All realize that we are not just ourselves facing the sunset, but the sunset of our race.*
All are still looking forward to the settlement of a claim against the government of the United States for reservations taken from the Chiricahua in 1876 and the Warm Springs in 1878. This debt is as yet unpaid. For many years my people have attempted to collect, but without results. I should like to see my government vindicated, though this possibility seems remote.
I have given Mrs. Ball what information I have concerning my people so that our descendants may know of the courage and resourcefulness of their ancestors. I hope, also, that this account may bring about a better understanding of the Apache among white Americans.
JAMES KAYWAYKLA (1877 – 1963) James Kaywaykla, died in his sleep at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, June 27, 1963
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Post by gregor on Apr 17, 2019 5:49:45 GMT -5
Some short notes on Kaywaykla.
(James) Kaywaykla Chihenne Apache
Ca. 1875/76 - 1963
As a boy Kaywaykla (“His-Enemies-Lie-Dead-In-Heaps”) was called Torres by his mother Gouyan (=Wise Woman? 1857-1903) until he got his name by Victorio. His paternal grandfather was Sanchez. Kaywaykla escaped the Tres Castillo massacre with his mother Gouyan, in some reports with his Grandmother. At this time Kaywaykla was 4 or 5 years old.
Gouyan was a Warm Springs/Nednhi. On the Nednhi side she was related to Zi-yeh, one of Geronimo’s wives. Comanches murdered Guyan’s first husband in the early 1870s (and she took revenge personally); about 1879 Apache Yuma Scouts killed Kaywaykla’s father.
About 1883, Kaytennae, a Scout and warrior of Sanchez’ Rancheria, married Gouyan. Kaywaykla married Dorothy Naiche, a granddaughter of Cochise and daughter of chief Naiche and Eh-clah-eh. He was also related to Chief Loco, an uncle. Nana was Kaywayklas grandmother’s brother. He called also Blanco and Suldeen his uncles.
James Kaywaykla died in his sleep at Fort Sill on June 27, 1963.
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Post by ouroboros on Apr 17, 2019 8:47:49 GMT -5
Does anyone know much about this man? He became the most influential Chihenne Chief after the death of Cuchillo Negro. In his early 30's he overtook Old Nana as the premier Chihenne leader. Not much else is known. Are there any pictures? Did he sign any treaties? I know he led in Victorios War and died tragically at the Battle of Tres Castilles.
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natethegreat
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Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Victorio
Apr 19, 2019 4:55:31 GMT -5
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Post by natethegreat on Apr 19, 2019 4:55:31 GMT -5
I want to read that book in the days of Victorio it seems like the premier book about information of him I'm pretty sure he established himself as our young warrior with the membreno Apaches and I know he did business with mangas coloradas as an aspiring leader and I'm pretty sure he was there and some of mangas coloradas is Battle alongside coach he's so he made a very big name for himself early on in his life and he made a decision that he wasn't going to do with the wife tell him to do and he didn't want to live at San Carlos and he was kind of upset at Geronimo for what he did to the Ojo Caliente reservation so I think without anywhere really to go he ran and fought who we had to to keep running and eventually you know a bad day came upon him and he had to do what a warrior does but I think you left behind a legacy as far as the Apaches are concerned that Victorio is a man that almost none can equal
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