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Post by Jari on Sept 2, 2008 3:01:56 GMT -5
In MEN WITH CUSTER by Ron Nichols is told that Half Yellow Face died in 1879. On the other hand Herman J. Viola tells in LITTLE BIGHORN REMEMBERED that Half Yellow Face died probably in early 1920s. (The Bureau of Indian Affairs does not even have record of Half Yellow Face's death.) Finally: In Greasy Grass Magazine Vol. 14, May 1998 is told that photograph of the Custer's Crow Scouts has been taken before the Sioux War 1876. Regards Jari Interesting, because I would've imagined the photo of the standing Half Yellow Face (if it is him) and the other mounted Crows to be later than 79.
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Post by grahamew on Sept 2, 2008 4:41:16 GMT -5
"Finally: In Greasy Grass Magazine Vol. 14, May 1998 is told that photograph of the Custer's Crow Scouts has been taken before the Sioux War 1876."
If true, that's surprising.
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Post by jinlian on Sept 2, 2008 7:15:46 GMT -5
Jari: thanks for the reference. If the group photo has been in fact taken before 1876, that would explain the young age of the man labeled as "Curley". About Half Yellow Face: I too tend to believe he died around 1879-1880 - as it has been told, in the 1885 records his wife is listed as head of the household. Given that his eldest son was 30 at the time, Half Yellow face must have been born at least in 1835 (which would make him 44 or 45 at the time of his death and explain why he was called to "carry the pipe" for the Crow scouts of Custer). Pretty Shield, daughter of Half Yellow Face's younger brother, recalled that his uncle was still alive in 1878 and that at the time he showed her the hole in which he and White Swan hid during the battle.
About the Barry photos of Curley: I've found a reference which dates them in 1878--79, but I don't think it's definitive.
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 2, 2008 7:48:59 GMT -5
Welcome Jari, and thanks for your comments. To be honest, I don´t believe that the group photo shows the Custer scouts. That´s probably kind of wishful thinking. The same photo can be found at SIRIS: (unknown photographer) The men are identified in the James E. Taylor collection as Crooked Face, Snake, Bad Belly and other unidentified men. I think Bad Belly is actually Big Belly and looks like the same man as in the Barry photo. Either does Snake. In my opinion Big Belly is too young to be Half Yellow Face, who was the leader of the Crow scouts. I think to remember seeing the same photo published somewhere else, identifying Big Medicine as in the picture (the man on horse in front?). Big Medicine was a Crow leader in the 1890s and early 1900s. But I can´t remember exactly...
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 2, 2008 7:59:28 GMT -5
Crooked Face resembles clearly this man:
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Post by jinlian on Sept 2, 2008 8:05:55 GMT -5
Dietmar, Big Medicine (b. 1855) was a River Crow and captain of the Crow Indian police between 1896 and the late 1910s. I've a photograph of him as a young man: And one of him at 50 something (will post it later, I've to scan it from a book)- honestly, I don't think the man in front it's him, far too different. The man on the white front instead could be actually Crooked Face - I posted a photo of him in the Pretty Eagle thread. Best, Jin Update: ok, I see you've posted the Crooked Face picture.
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Post by Jari on Sept 2, 2008 11:05:26 GMT -5
Hi, You are probably right. I was wrong. SORRY. I reread the article and noticed that the photo has been taken (according to the article) after the sioux war 1876 in Fort Custer. Richard Upton has written about the scouts in Fort Custer in his book "The Indian as a Soldier at Fort Custer, Montana" you might find answers in this book. Regards Jari from Finland "Finally: In Greasy Grass Magazine Vol. 14, May 1998 is told that photograph of the Custer's Crow Scouts has been taken before the Sioux War 1876." If true, that's surprising.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Sept 2, 2008 11:55:54 GMT -5
Jari,
It's wonderful to see you here. Frank, our other Friend from Finland, is in China now but will return in a couple of weeks.
Best wishes,
Diane
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Post by grahamew on Sept 2, 2008 12:18:21 GMT -5
If it's any help, I have 1883 for this Haynes photo of Curley: I also have this photo of Big Medicine with Yellow Dog/Old Coyote and their wives (Haynes, 1883): And, finally, this Haynes portrait of Big Medicine:
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Post by jinlian on Sept 2, 2008 16:20:01 GMT -5
Great photos, Grahame. The Curley and Big Medicine (yes, that's definitely him). Here's the picture featuring him and Plenty Coups in 1910 Big Medicine (with his policeman hat on) is sitting at Plenty Coups' right. On the other hand, a few months ago at Cowan's there was a Bull Snake picture on sale: "O.S. Goff album photograph of Crow Indian Scout Bull Snake", dated 1887. I wonder if it was taken at the same time of the "Custer scouts" one...It's remarkable how Bull Snake is wearing the same army uniform sported by "Half Yellow Face/Big Belly" in the other picture...
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 3, 2008 6:49:36 GMT -5
Isn´t it Snake in the group photo above, sitting in front on the right side?
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Post by jinlian on Sept 3, 2008 7:18:28 GMT -5
Which one, Dietmar? In my opinion, the men sitting on the right look to young to be Snake.
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 3, 2008 7:55:07 GMT -5
Hi Jin,
I mean the group photo in reply no. 24 with Plenty Coups and Big Medicine.
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Post by jinlian on Sept 3, 2008 8:09:26 GMT -5
Sorry Dietmar, it's my bad English - I meant which one of the Big Medicine-Plenty Coups group photo. At the time, Snake would have been in his middle 60s and the men in the photo look more like 40-50s....
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 3, 2008 8:21:06 GMT -5
... you mean MY bad English? Okay... the man in the grey suit, sitting farest in front (on right). Can I say it in German? ;D
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