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Post by charlie on Jul 8, 2017 11:15:39 GMT -5
Born in 1845, he belonged to Kuhinyan band of Oglala subdivision. Indian name: CONICA WANICA In 1872 he partecipated at a peace delegation in Washington. In 1877 he became scout of U.S.Army. Later, he lived in Pine Ridge reservation. He had two wifes: Smoke and Shell Woman. There are many and wonderful images of him; I hope that Dietmar and the others experts post its. Can anyone added other info about him?
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 9, 2017 13:19:50 GMT -5
Here are the first pictures, Charlie: No Flesh No Flesh by Alexander Gardner, 1872 No Flesh by Alexander Gardner, 1872
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 9, 2017 16:15:10 GMT -5
This is No Flesh again in 1872, when he was with the Red Cloud delegation in Washington: No Flesh, 1872 No Flesh by Trager & Kuhn No Flesh by D. S. Mitchell No Flesh in uniform, from the cover of a National Geographic book No Flesh, stereograph found at Ebay No Flesh, cropped from a stereograph found at Ebay No Flesh in Washington 1888 No Flesh in Washington, 1888
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Post by gregor on Jul 10, 2017 7:24:27 GMT -5
This is what I have on No Flesh (a rough Translation):
No Flesh Oglala
(1845 – aft. 1916?)
Čoniča Waniča
In 1872, 1877, and in subsequent years, Čoniča Waniča or No Flesh visited Washington several times as a member of various Oglala delegations. No Flesh was born around 1845 into the Kuhinyan group of Oglalas. His father was a respected medicine man (Pejuta Wičasa) and the famous Crazy Horse antagonist No Water was one of his half-brothers. Black Twin may have been another brother. Another relationship may have existed with Plenty Wolves (aka Yankton Charley).
In 1877, No Flesh, who was already a respected akicita leader, entered the US Army Scout Corps. In September 1877 in this capacity he was commissioned with the return of Crazy Horse, who had fled from the Red Cloud Agency (near Camp Robinson) to the Spotted Tail Agency. When the order was taken, he was supposed to have called that he intended to kill Crazy Horse. The patience of Reservation Lakota leaders with the "unruly" warrior was over. That No Flesh was related to No Water, whose wife Crazy Horse had conquered years before, may have played a role.
Despite No Flesh was counted among the progressive Lakota, in 1884 he took part in a Sun Dance as a mentor. Prior to that, he had tried to get permission for the attendance / execution of the Sun Dance, but Agent McGillycuddy refused this. As McGillycuddy could see through the fact that he had only to intervene when the event became known to him, No Flesh relocated the Sun Dance to hidden areas of the reservation. In spite of being regarded a progressive Indian, No Flesh adhered to the religious rites of his culture.
Two of his wives are known by name, Smoke (marriage around 1879) and Shell Woman, whom he married in 1894. With Smoke he had a daughter (* 1880) and a son (* 1886). No Flesh lived on the Pine Ridge Reservation near today's Kyle on the No-Flesh-Creek named after him.
From 1905 to about 1916, Čoniča Waniča was one of the informants of the Pine Ridge physician James R. Walker. In Walker's book, "The Sun Dance and Other Ceremonies of the Oglala Division of the Teton Dakota [1917]" No Flesh especially shared the Lakota's view on diseases (The Causes Of Diseases – told by No-Flesh).
Čoniča Waniča should not to be confused with a Brulé No Flesh, who took part in the battle at Little Bighorn.
Any corrections or additions?
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 10, 2017 7:59:43 GMT -5
Danke Gregor,
I wonder why there are sources that say No Flesh and his following were Wazhazhas.
for example:
"No Flesh Creek Community- This area was settled originally by the leader No Flesh whose followers were Wazazas. They were closely related and allied with the Brules." [Tiospaye - Curriculum Materials Resource Unit, Oglala Sioux Culture Center, Red Cloud Indian School, page 37]
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 10, 2017 8:26:39 GMT -5
No Flesh, cropped from a group photo taken in 1875 No Flesh, by D. S. Mitchell (2nd photo of 1877 session by Mitchell, without rifle) No Flesh by Edward Curtis, 1907
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Post by charlie on Jul 10, 2017 9:54:30 GMT -5
Great photos, especially that of Mitchell. It's should be very interesting to see an image of the other NO FLESH (Brulè) that fought at LBH. In the battle, he killed a guidon bearer and took the flag... A very brave man!
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 10, 2017 11:21:58 GMT -5
Maybe others can clarify that, but if No Flesh was indeed a Wazhazha, it would have been no wonder if No Flesh moved back and forth between the Spotted Tail and Red Cloud agencies/groups, like other Wazhazhas did.
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Post by gregor on Jul 10, 2017 15:41:53 GMT -5
Hi Dietmar, I was also a little bit confused about the Kuhinyan or Wazhazha question. But I have no Solution. But I also don't think that this man was in the LBH fight. From 1872 he was always with the progressive or Agency Lakotas. And who was the Brule No Flesh. Maybe some Friends from Rosebud can help. CU Gregor
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Post by kingsleybray on Jul 10, 2017 16:26:10 GMT -5
No Flesh was a Southern Oglala, but you're right he is quite often referred to as a Wazhazha. Perhaps this sub-band was intermarried extensively with the Wazhazhas. There are a couple of examples I'm aware where a band's name reflected the preponderance of in-married women. An example is the Ihanktonwan band of Lower Brule. There were a number of Yankton women who married Brule men, generating enough families to create a new band -- called the Ihanktonwan after the cohort of in-married females.
I will try to find out about that. But No Flesh's floating status btw the Red Cloud and Spotted Tail agencies from 1872 through 1877 must point to some sort of Brule connection.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 10, 2017 16:36:56 GMT -5
Thanks Kingsley. We may also consider that the No Flesh photos of the 1872 delegation are labelled in several archives (British Museum, National Archives, Getty Museum, etc.) as Brule.
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 10, 2017 16:47:37 GMT -5
I´m not sure who created this illustration in said publication of the Oglala Sioux Culture center ("Tiospaye - Curriculum Materials Resource Unit", page 21), but interestingly No Flesh is placed next to Red Leaf in this camp circle: Old Time Band Circle The same publication states that "No Flesh of the Wazazas" was closely allied with Turning Hawk and the families at Potato Creek.
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Post by gregor on Jul 11, 2017 1:26:15 GMT -5
This camp circle is from
Curriculum Materials Resource Unit(Project IH-004), Oglala Sioux Culture Center, Red Cloud Indian School, In consultation with: Jake Little Thunder, Wanblee, South Dakota (I have a copy). Published in July 1972
This is said about the above circle:
The Kiyuksas disliked Red Cloud's leadership and didnot wish to live at the Agency at all. They moved east-ward until they settled on the Yellow Medicine Root Creek. The Payabayas under Young Man Afraid of His Horse moved north along the White Clay Creek. The Oyukpe, under Red Do g, moved to Wounded Knee Creek. ............... When these Headmen led their tiospayes away fram the Agency, the question of rations became important. ............... Each week the people would leave their cabins to rideinto Pine Ridge, called Owakpmmni (Place Where They Give Away),because they received their rations there.There were noweight men recognized as Head Chiefs for their bands.LittleWound, Red Cloud, /bung Man Afraid of His Horses, Red Dog,White Bird, Vo Flesh, High Bear, and Red Shirt. Therefore,the rations mere divided into eight piles on the ground. Each Head Chief would then take his pile of rations and distributeit equally among the camps in his band.
And this is said about the communities:
Potato Creek The original families at Potato Creek were Plenty Bears, Hollow Heads, and Hunting Horses.BrokenRo Pe. Afraid of Nothing, Standing Soldier, White Horse,Red Elk, White Deer Man Above, Twiss, Shot With Arrows,Marshall, Old Horse, Bull Man, Crazy D3g, Bush, BearRunner, Horn Cloud, and many others lived here. Their leader was Turning Hawk, who was closely alliedwith lb Flesh of the Wazazas.In this community, peopledid alot to help each other for the good of the community.
No Flesh Creek Community- This area was settled originally by the leader No Flesh whose followers were Wazazas. They were closely related and allied with the Brules.
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Post by ephriam on Jul 11, 2017 6:43:30 GMT -5
Good morning, everyone:
Great conversation about the Oglala No Flesh, however, I believe we are getting several different individuals with the same name confused.
The most famous No Flesh, who appears in all the portraits, died in 1889 (see Annual Report of Commission of Indian Affairs, 1889, p. 153). We can see him and his large family in the Pine Ridge Agency census records from 1886 to 1888 (there was no 1889 census). By the time of the 1890 census, a year after his death, his children are scattered into a couple of different families, with his wife living with one of them. (By the way, where does the Mitchell portrait of No Flesh without the rifle come from? That is the first time I have seen that one)
The second No Flesh appears in the Pine Ridge Agency census records with his wife, Shell Woman, from 1893 through 1907; he then moves to the Cheyenne River Reservation where he and his wife are recorded in the census records from 1909 until his death on June 29, 1930. He was probably Walker's informant in 1899.
Just to make it more interesting, a third man named No Flesh with 3 wives appears in the Rosebud census records for 1887, but I have not tracked him out yet.
Mari Sandoz is the only source that I am aware that mentions a No Flesh at the Little Bighorn and I do not know what her original source was. I agree that this No Flesh was probably not the prominent Oglala leader by that name.
Might the second No Flesh have been a young brother, who took on the family name after his brother's death in 1889?
Ephriam
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Post by Dietmar on Jul 11, 2017 8:16:42 GMT -5
Thanks Ephriam. That would mean the No Flesh photographed by Edward Curtis is another man. The new Mitchell portrait is part of three collages I´ve seen at Cowan´s Auctions. Only one of the collages is still online: www.cowanauctions.com/lot/rare-daniel-s-mitchell-john-hillers-american-indian-cdv-album-103706I´ve found this newspaper article covering the 1891 delegation to the East coast, while they were stopping at Chicago: Spotted Horse is a son of No Flesh, who was one of the best chiefs among the Ogallalas. When No Flesh died Spotted Horse took his father’s uniform, which was the gift of General Crook, and sloaked his long, shrunken form in its folds. At Wounded Knee Old Spot, as he is called, shot four of Big Foot's braves and otherwise distinguished himself as a supporter of the Government. He is not much of an orator, but, ranking with such petty chief as American Horse, Standing Soldier and Fast Thunder, it is certain that his selection as one of the emissaries from Pine Ridge was not a mistake. [The Indianapolis News, January 29, 1891] The said uniform possibly is shown in the above National Geographic cover. Spotted Horse However, he looks surprisingly old to be No Flesh´s son. He is also said to had been No Flesh´s younger brother. As other details in the above newspaper article are not very accurate, we perhaps should take it carefully.
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