Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 10:54:39 GMT -5
I cannot speak English, but I understand it so that I know when it is interpreted wrong. I have learned to write in Lakota, but I write as the old Lakota spoke when they spoke in a formal manner. The young Oglalas do not understand a formal talk by an old Lakota because the white people have changed the Lakota language, and the young people speak it as the white people have written it. I will write of the old customs and ceremonies for you. I will write that which all the people knew. -- George Sword arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/311217/1/azu_etd_13116_sip1_m.pdfGeorge Sword [...] insisted a great change had come over the Lakota language since it had been reduced to writing [...] Sword felt that as the language was formerly spoken -- and as it was still spoken in ceremonies and formal speeches -- each syllable was a distinct unit of meaning. Sequences of syllables [...] accepted as equivalents for English words were really phrases, according to Sword. But the younger Oglalas had come to accept the newer view and the language had changed to the extent that younger men could no longer understand the old formal speech. -- Raymond DeMallie www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/Supplements/excerpts/Fall%2016/9780803284395_excerpt.pdf
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 15:59:11 GMT -5
Looking at the names of those signatory to the 1851 and 1868 treaties, it seems that George Sword was correct in his interpretation of the use of syllables making up words. Mah-toe-wha-you-whey, his x mark. Mah-kah-toe-zah-zah, his x mark. Bel-o-ton-kah-tan-ga, his x mark. Nah-ka-pah-gi-gi, his x mark. Mak-toe-sah-bi-chis, his x mark. Meh-wha-tah-ni-hans-kah, his x mark. digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/Vol2/treaties/sio0594.htmMA-ZA-PON-KASKA, his X mark, Iron Shell. WAH-PAT-SHAH, his X mark, Red Leaf. ZIN-TAH-GAH-LAT-WAH, his X mark, Spotted Tail. MAH-TO-HO-HONKA, his X mark, Swift Bear. MA-TA-LOO-ZAH, his X mark, Fast Bear. AS-HAH-HAH-NAH-SHE, his X mark, Standing Elk. CAN-TE-TE-KI-YA, his X mark, The Brave Heart. www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/four/ftlaram.htm
|
|
|
Post by witkola on Feb 17, 2017 14:51:02 GMT -5
One of the troublesome terms that I've found with the treaty of 1868 is with "Bella Tonka Tonka" > "Big Partisan".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 17:16:41 GMT -5
Yes, me too. Thanka is in the New Lakota Dictionary but there is nothing close to Bel-o. I've found most of the others. Even Mak-toe-sah-bi-chis, Smutty Bear! The word is shab'ich'iya, to smear oneself.
|
|
|
Post by witkola on Feb 18, 2017 17:23:51 GMT -5
Buechel's original dictionary is a very helpful and far more reliable resource for Lakȟóta words because he provided a provenance for many Lakȟóta words while, in contrast, there is no attribution in the other one that you mentioned. The English term translated as "Bad Partisan" appears in the Crazy Horse Surrender Ledger; "Big Partizan" appears in circa 1880 Twiss documents; "Little Partisan," and "Kills Partisan" appear in census records of the "Rosebud Sioux" but I don't find any Lakȟóta word(s) from which the English terms ("partisan" looks French to me) are derived. An animate member of anything (such as a partisan?), in Lakȟóta, would be "ópȟaya ų" but the reduplication of "tȟą́kA" in "Bella Thonka Thonka" suggests plural inanimate things. The "-la" of "Bella" suggests a diminuative. The "b-" could be "ɂp-". Interesting.
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Feb 19, 2017 5:49:02 GMT -5
The Lakota word translated as 'partisan' by the early French was blotahunka. It signifies a war-party leader. The Lakota name of the Brule leader Big Partisan was Blotahunka Tanka, literally Great War Leader. See p. 111 of the 1970 edition of Fr Buechel's dictionary - definition "A chief, the leader of a war party."
|
|
|
Post by witkola on Feb 19, 2017 9:03:33 GMT -5
The Lakota word translated as 'partisan' by the early French was blotahunka. It signifies a war-party leader. The Lakota name of the Brule leader Big Partisan was Blotahunka Tanka, literally Great War Leader. See p. 111 of the 1970 edition of Fr Buechel's dictionary - definition "A chief, the leader of a war party." Thank you for the very interesting information about the name Big Partisan in the 1868 Treaty that you have translated as "Blotahunka Tanka". This is a screenshot of "Bel-o-ton-kah-tan-ga" provided in georg's link. This is a screenshot of the handwritten term as it appears in an online document "ourdocuments.gov/document_data/document_images/doc_042b_big.jpg" (insert "https://" to view the document. Below is the same screenshot as above but enhanced with contrast. Below is Buechel, pg.111. This is an excellent example of the problems related to transcribing English handwriting from old documents and trying to reconstruct the original Lakȟóta name. However, considering that it is a Lakȟóta term, it would seem that the Lakȟóta would be "blotȟáhųka" from "bloká" + "-tȟa-" + "hųká" > "blotȟáhųka" (the "ȟ" is a voiceless velar fricative) rather than the unaspirated "-t-" in Buechel's dictionary as well as the other one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 17:38:34 GMT -5
Wow! Thanks to you both. I must say that I'm new to all this and only got the dictionary this summer. My area of research is the Shangrau brothers, but I've quickly gotten immersed in the lives and language of the people involved. My father started me out at a very young age speaking probably the only saying he knew and years ago when I was at Keystone I picked up a copy of "Everyday Lakota: An English-Sioux Dictionary for Beginners." Just enough to whet my appetite but not enough to satisfy it. I will have to look into getting a copy of the Buechel book. Thanks again. By the way, the saying my father taught me was this, "Líla wašté kȟóla. Wašté waníče."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 20:55:54 GMT -5
After looking at the reviews for the Buechel dictionary, I think this is the book for me. The drawing point for me is the inclusion of archaic words which is exactly what the New Lakota Dictionary misses the boat on. Some reviewer complain that the book is full of errors, but which book does not have them.
|
|
henry1990
New Member
cultural researcher, lakota language preservation office. working to help preserve our lakota lang.
Posts: 6
|
Post by henry1990 on Mar 10, 2017 10:39:51 GMT -5
as a lakota language teacher, ive helped with curriculum in one HS. we came across words that had no meaning so what we did was debate over this word and we came to the conclusion that we use a lakota word that means the the same thing and its not always the exact meaning...here on the rosebud reservation we are using the Albert WH teaching methods. words are spelled alot differently than some of the new LLC methods. its one of the older ways to spell the lakota words. i'm no expert but i too can tell the difference in the context of our language. not too dictionaries are the same. there is alot of dictioneries out there for lakota languge. im a decendant of Quick Bear aka fast bear : mato ohanko one who's name is also on the treaty of 1868...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 5:53:48 GMT -5
|
|
fernando
New Member
My birthday December 19, 1948
Posts: 11
|
Post by fernando on Mar 28, 2017 11:00:52 GMT -5
The Lakota word translated as 'partisan' by the early French was blotahunka. It signifies a war-party leader. The Lakota name of the Brule leader Big Partisan was Blotahunka Tanka, literally Great War Leader. See p. 111 of the 1970 edition of Fr Buechel's dictionary - definition "A chief, the leader of a war party." Kingsley, in the Riggs dictionary there is a slightly difference in the spell of the word blotahunka. It states " blo-tan´-hun-ka" . Surely this is a minor difference but I wanted to guess. And at the same time asking for your advice, as I would like to have a more accesible and modern Lakota dictionary than the Riggs I have. And the Buechel seems not much more innovative according to what I read. What about the New Dictionary of Jan Ullrich Director of the Lakota language Consortium? Grateful your advice. I also holpe to be able to read soon your book on Crazy Horse
|
|
fernando
New Member
My birthday December 19, 1948
Posts: 11
|
Post by fernando on Mar 28, 2017 12:03:05 GMT -5
Kingsley, in the Riggs dictionary I see a slight difference in the spell of the word blotahunka. The Riggs dictionary says "blo-tan´-hun -ka". Probably a minor difference, but I wanted to check. I also would like to ask your advice as I want a more accesible and modern Lakota dictionary than the Riggs and Buechel. What about the one of the Lakota Language Consortium? Grateful for your comments.
Hope to be able to read soon your book on Crazy Horse.
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Mar 28, 2017 16:43:14 GMT -5
fernando, Dakota-Lakota has some nasal n- sounds that some orthographies choose to spell out, others don't. Another example besides blota(n)hunka would be the word for thunder, it can be spelled wakinyan, or wakiyan. (It really isn't much of an n-sound.) But I'm not a linguist and must ask other speakers and / or educators to weigh in on advising you on the best dictionary.
|
|
|
Post by gregor on May 4, 2017 1:12:07 GMT -5
I feel I have something to say on Eugene Buechel, a man who tried to preserve the Lakota culture for following Generations.
Father Eugene Buechel (in German: Eugen Büchel, 1874 - 1954) was a German Jesuit who labored as a missionary among the Lakota on Pine Ridge and Rosebud. He had a great aptitude for languages. Beside his mother tongue German he spoke English, had outstanding knowledge of Latin and Greek. Buechel strongly believed that to work successful as a missionary he had to learn the Lakota language. Working over 50 years on Pine Ridge and Rosebud reservations he acquired a profound understanding of the language and the Lakota culture. In these 50 years he collected some thousand Lakota words and phrases on file cards and often jotted down who was the source of a term or definition. Over 100 persons are noted as sources; among them such known persons as Black Elk, Red Cloud, Eagle Man, Big Turkey, Narcisse Moran, Joseph Horn Cloud, Peter Iron Shell, Stranger Horse, Short Bull, Whirlwind Soldier, Yellow Hair and many more.
Now to the statement “The Lakota language was changed by the white man”. Of course, he introduced writing to the Lakota. And it is always difficult to bring out a written language with an unknown/foreign writing concept. Every language has its special features: special phonetics, special grammar. To a German Lakota sounds a little bit like a mixture of French, Polish and e.g. German. Buechel was German and he operated with the (German) 26 basic alphabetic characters, but had to bring out phonetics which do not exist in West-European languages. However, these "tools" are not sufficient to represent (especially) foreign-European languages accurately. And there are significant differences between spoken and written language. Even if the pronunciation coincides with the spelling, one does not speak exactly as one writes.
It is true, the white man destroyed a lot of the Lakota culture and the language. But without such men as Eugene Buechel, Stephen Return Riggs or the Pond brothers a lot more of culture and language would be lost in the mists of history. Years ago I visited the Lakota missions on Pine Ridge (Heritage center / Red Cloud School) and Rosebud (St. Francis) and always heard only praise and appreciation for Buechel’s work.
Toksha, gregor
|
|