Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 16:28:18 GMT -5
Does anyone know if there is any interpretation by the Lakota for the appearance of this lake the wasicu named "Phantom Lake"? "Phantom Lake is a natural lake in South Dakota, [...] Phantom Lake was named for the phenomenon in which the lake vanishes from sight when seen from different angles." The Federal Writers' Project (1940). South Dakota place-names, v.2. University of South Dakota. p. 56., has an entry that reads, in part, "Phantom Lake [...] was so named because at certain times of the day, when viewed from a distance, it seems to disappear." If any body of water would, this strange and incomprehensible lake would seem to rate the name Wakhan Ble. Does anyone know if this is true. By the way, John Shangrau, grandson of Smoke, iyeska chinca for the wasicu, guide for General Crook who thought to surprise the joint Cheyenne and Lakota encampment on the Powder River in March of 1876, and a witness to the events at Wounded Knee Creek on December 29, 1890, lived not far from this lake near Tuthill (if not actually by the lake) upon his retirement from working with his old friend Bill Cody. The lake is south of LaCreek and Tuthill and near the Nebraska line and also near Bill Cody's hacienda which was located just a few miles to the east across the Nebraska line at Cody Lake. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Lake_(South_Dakota)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 0:15:01 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 0:20:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by dT on Feb 16, 2017 15:52:40 GMT -5
Georg
very interesting. i have never been to Phantom Lake.
Just guess ... maybe there is something unusual about the land and the vegetation beside the lake. So if a person looks from various places, maybe the reflected light causes the lake to 'disappear'.
Like I said. Only a guess.
dT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 16:03:49 GMT -5
Yes it is very interesting. I've been unable to find any information regarding the cause for the phenomenon, and it appears to be unique among descriptions of lakes. I've seen many lakes in my life time but never saw any that seemed to disappear. It seems to be a matter of distance, elevation, and time of day for this one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 23:17:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by dT on Mar 4, 2017 18:05:49 GMT -5
very likely the same place. but i think that this lake was not a myth. the old-time warriors and chiefs were very wise about nature. they knew what they were talking about. i wonder if this place still exists?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 20:34:25 GMT -5
Yes, I think maybe the word "myth" is used loosely. And yes, I agree about them being wise. I believe that Smoke was very sophisticated in his thinking and his move to the wasicu fort on the Mussel Shell was well thought out. He had a purpose in mind and I think that purpose was to prepare his people for the inevitable. I don't think that it was any chance occurrence that many of his kin married the wasicu. Julian Louis Shangrau and John Shangrau are the inspiration for my research and I think they carried out the wishes of Smoke to the best of their abilities and as time and place allowed. If you have read accounts of the expedition by Crook in the late winter of 1876 to the Powder River country you may know how events transpired that ruined the surprise attack Crook had planned.
By the way, here's a passage in the book I did not notice before, "Page 397 - SICUN. (By Sword.) The word Sicun is from the sacred language of the shamans. It signifies the spirit of a man. This spirit is given to him at birth to guard him against the evil spirits and at death it conducts him to the land of the spirits, but does not go there itself. In the course of his life a man may choose other Sicun. He may choose as many as he wishes but such Sicun do not accompany him after death; if he has led an evil life no Sicun will accompany him."
This is similar to the passage by Finger in the Walker book I already have, "Anything that has a birth must have a death. The Wakȟáŋ has no birth and it has no death. The spirit, the ghost, and the familiar of man are not born with him, but are given to him at the time of his birth. They are Wakȟáŋ and therefore will never die."
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Mar 5, 2017 12:18:18 GMT -5
The legend of the Mysterious Lake, as told to James R. Walker by Makula, refers to a specific place -- the large lake in central Minnesota called Mille Lacs Lake today. The Oglala ceremonial leader Wilmer Mesteth, who died in 2015, told me a long version of the same story and was explicit in identifying it with that lake. Many Lakota and Dakota bands once lived beside that lake.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 7:16:24 GMT -5
Thanks. Does it have a Lakota name?
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Mar 6, 2017 11:33:14 GMT -5
Mde waḳaŋ/minne wakan, at a guess - though not the same Spirit Lake associated with Inkpaduta, right?
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Mar 6, 2017 17:51:40 GMT -5
Mde wakan in d-Dakota, from which we get the name of the parent division of all Dakotas-Lakotas -- Mdewakan-tonwan, the Village of Sacred Lake. Ble wakan in l-Lakota. It's a different lake from the one in Iowa associated with Inkpaduta, but same name in Dakota.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 20:15:15 GMT -5
Yes, I have a great interest in the Sand Hills area. When John and Lillie Shangrau retired from the Wild West Show they settled near Tuthill and not all that far from Phantom Lake. The Cody ranch is just over the Nebraska line ten miles or so from where the Shangrau place was. In fact part of Cody Lake is in South Dakota. I also have an interest in Blue Water Creek which drains into the Mussel Shell. This is where Red Cloud and Roaring Cloud are said to have been born and also, in all probability, where Big Mouth and Blue Horse were born. The lakes (Swan, etc.) at the head waters of Blue Water Creek once probably had the greatest concentration of migratory birds in North America and had to be a prime hunting ground for the Lakota.
|
|
|
Post by taliesin on Mar 24, 2017 8:56:20 GMT -5
Yes, I think maybe the word "myth" is used loosely. And yes, I agree about them being wise. I believe that Smoke was very sophisticated in his thinking and his move to the wasicu fort on the Mussel Shell was well thought out. He had a purpose in mind and I think that purpose was to prepare his people for the inevitable. I don't think that it was any chance occurrence that many of his kin married the wasicu. Julian Louis Shangrau and John Shangrau are the inspiration for my research and I think they carried out the wishes of Smoke to the best of their abilities and as time and place allowed. If you have read accounts of the expedition by Crook in the late winter of 1876 to the Powder River country you may know how events transpired that ruined the surprise attack Crook had planned. By the way, here's a passage in the book I did not notice before, "Page 397 - SICUN. (By Sword.) The word Sicun is from the sacred language of the shamans. It signifies the spirit of a man. This spirit is given to him at birth to guard him against the evil spirits and at death it conducts him to the land of the spirits, but does not go there itself. In the course of his life a man may choose other Sicun. He may choose as many as he wishes but such Sicun do not accompany him after death; if he has led an evil life no Sicun will accompany him." This is similar to the passage by Finger in the Walker book I already have, "Anything that has a birth must have a death. The Wakȟáŋ has no birth and it has no death. The spirit, the ghost, and the familiar of man are not born with him, but are given to him at the time of his birth. They are Wakȟáŋ and therefore will never die."
|
|
|
Post by taliesin on Mar 24, 2017 8:59:20 GMT -5
Yes, I think maybe the word "myth" is used loosely. And yes, I agree about them being wise. I believe that Smoke was very sophisticated in his thinking and his move to the wasicu fort on the Mussel Shell was well thought out. He had a purpose in mind and I think that purpose was to prepare his people for the inevitable. I don't think that it was any chance occurrence that many of his kin married the wasicu. Julian Louis Shangrau and John Shangrau are the inspiration for my research and I think they carried out the wishes of Smoke to the best of their abilities and as time and place allowed. If you have read accounts of the expedition by Crook in the late winter of 1876 to the Powder River country you may know how events transpired that ruined the surprise attack Crook had planned. By the way, here's a passage in the book I did not notice before, "Page 397 - SICUN. (By Sword.) The word Sicun is from the sacred language of the shamans. It signifies the spirit of a man. This spirit is given to him at birth to guard him against the evil spirits and at death it conducts him to the land of the spirits, but does not go there itself. In the course of his life a man may choose other Sicun. He may choose as many as he wishes but such Sicun do not accompany him after death; if he has led an evil life no Sicun will accompany him." This is similar to the passage by Finger in the Walker book I already have, "Anything that has a birth must have a death. The Wakȟáŋ has no birth and it has no death. The spirit, the ghost, and the familiar of man are not born with him, but are given to him at the time of his birth. They are Wakȟáŋ and therefore will never die."
|
|