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Post by jinlian on Jun 18, 2011 7:03:59 GMT -5
Thanks Hako, I had that photograph at very low resolution - it's good to have it in such great quality!
Jeroen, that's a great image I've never seen before -any further details about it? Thanks for posting it.
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Post by jeroen on Jun 18, 2011 10:56:07 GMT -5
Sorry Jinlian, I have no further details... a friend sent it to me, but without additional information... I also got this one, probably taken in the 1877 series, and labeled as 'son of American Horse:
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Post by grahamew on Jun 19, 2011 13:32:50 GMT -5
American Horse and his wife during his stint with the Wild West Show, 1887-8 Close-up of his shield: The home of American Horse on Pine Ridge:
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Post by kingsleybray on Nov 13, 2011 7:00:06 GMT -5
I have been doing some thinking recently about the possible marriage (and other) connections between the leading Oglala families - what hreinn in a posting on the 'Crazy Horse's Oglala grandmother' thread referrred to as the social "glue" binding together the families, bands, and the larger tribe and nation. A tantalizing statement by a key Oglala leader, American Horse, is contained in the intoductory matter to his 1905 interview with Judge Ricker. When he made the statement it seems clear that he intended it as a comprehensive account of his family history, and the place of his family in the tribe. It's really unfortunate therefore that Ricker only transcribed most of this passage in his own idiosyncratic - i.e. illegible - shorthand! American Horse first told Ricker that “his grandfather was ninety-six years old when he died in 1886”, born c. 1790. American Horse expands by stating “Big Mouth & Blue Horse & Sitting Bear who was - - - - [several illegible shorthand words]. they count from these wives of his gr.gr.grandfather 5 generations” (Eli S. Ricker papers, Tablets 16, 33, in Richard E. Jensen, ed., Voices of the American West:The Indian Interviews of Eli S. Ricker, 1903-1919 [University of Nebraska Press, 2005] Vol. 1, pages 277-278). Independently of this data, we do know that American Horse's grandfather was called Sitting Bear, and that his son (American Horse's father) was called Three Bears, though he was also often known by his father's name Sitting Bear. Sitting Bear I was born toward the end of the 18th century (1790 according to the Ricker interview), Three Bears (Sitting Bear II) was born c. 1805-06 (according to American Horse's own winter count). Finally American Horse himself was born late in the 1830s, variously, 1836, 1839, 1840: take your pick (I like 1839) . So what was American Horse trying to explain in the Ricker interview ? First he obviously considers that his own father Sitting Bear II and the brothers Big Mouth and Blue Horse, Loafer band headmen and close relatives (sons?) of chief Smoke, were in some sense relatives and contemporaries. He also clearly considered that the marriages of his great-great grandfather constituted an important stage in family, and perhaps wider tribal history. When did those marriages take place? Since American Horse was born c. 1840, and his grandfather purportedly in 1790, his generations average twenty-five years. His great-great grandfather would have been born c. 1740, and married perhaps a year or two before 1765. Who were his wives, the women whose marriages to his great-great grandfather American Horse obviously considered an important turning-point in family and even tribal history? It would seem to me that he is trying to say that they stood in the lineage of the Smoke family, ancestral to his father's collaterals Blue Horse and Big Mouth. (We have seen evidence on the Smoke family thread about the possibility that Big Mouth and Blue Horse were twin sons of Smoke.) Does anyone have any ideas about these family connections? Genealogists? American Horse buffs? Family descendants who come on the boards? What I am proposing as a provisional suggestion is that these women who married American Horse's great-great grandfather - perhaps at a great inter-family event at the annual Lakota gathering/trade fair a year or so before 1765 - were 'sisters' to Standing Bull. Standing Bull himself, raised a Sihasapa (Blackfoot Sioux) according to Wendyll Smoke's messages here, was grandfather to Smoke. I believe that Standing Bull through a series of carefully orchestrated marriages between himself, his kin, and other leading Oglala families succeeded in placing himself at the heart of Oglala kinship networks. The ties to the Sitting Bear-American Horse line may have been the founding event in these connections. American Horse's reference to it may indicate that the marriage event was remembered as a key point in the evolution of the Oglala tribe. Any thoughts out there? Kingsley
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Post by jamiel on Nov 13, 2011 17:53:58 GMT -5
to kingsleybray #123 i just bought a CD called Families of Pine Ridge created by LaDeane Miller-a lot of the information is in selected notes-i am having a ball with it jamiel
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Post by kingsleybray on Nov 14, 2011 17:55:14 GMT -5
Thanks, jamiel, I certainly want to obtain a copy of LaDeane's genealogy CD.
After a message from hreinn, I have proof-read and corrected my above message. I had mistyped great-grandfather a couple of times when I meant great-great grandfather.
After consulting with hreinn, we have suggested a further explanation of American Horse's statement to Ricker, which ends with this enigmatic passage (in bold):
"Big Mouth & Blue Horse & Sitting Bear who was - - - -. they count from these wives of his gr.gr. grandfather 5 generations embracing 1262 - to that -, - 16 - 1905."
Ricker wrote in a hasty shorthand. American Horse may have meant that since the marriages of his great-grandfather five generations had elapsed "embracing [the years] 1762 to that -, [June] 16 - 1905." The interview was definitely held on June 16, 1905. In writing numerals a 7 can easily be misread as a 2. (I am looking into ways of checking with the original ms in the Ricker papers.)
If this is correct it suggests that American Horse believed that his great-grandfather, eldest child of his great-great grandfather, was born in 1762. He could have obtained this date from the No Ears winter count which is the only published Oglala count to extend this far back; it was also used (according to James R. Walker) in a semi-official capacity at Pine Ridge Agency about 1900.
The No Ears entry for 1762 is "They Swam After Buffalo", when Oglala hunters swam in the Missouri river to retrieve buffalo carcasses drowned in the spring rise.
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Post by jamiel on Nov 19, 2011 13:11:57 GMT -5
kingsleybray #123 I am a 3 great-granddaughter of Red Cloud and a 3rd great grand niece of Crazy Horse which was confirmed by the CD I bought jamiel
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Post by grahamew on Mar 28, 2012 14:07:42 GMT -5
Not sure we've had these, but they're from the Nebraska State Historical Society archives: Little Hound (sic)/Wound and American Horse (B F Ray, 1903/04; Rushville, Neb): American Horse (same photographer; same date):
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Post by leeshalynn on Jun 11, 2012 12:13:22 GMT -5
I am a graduate student in Nebraska, and I am looking for descendants of American Horse. Do you know any? Thank you!
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Post by miller7513 on Jun 11, 2012 14:28:00 GMT -5
leeshalyn which American Horse-born 1812-1840-1842-1856? LaDeane
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Post by jeroen on Jul 11, 2012 9:37:39 GMT -5
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 9, 2012 5:49:58 GMT -5
A website visitor has sent me this request: "Are Julia American Horse and Julia Last Horse related? I am trying to determine if Ola Mildred Rexroat is the daughter of Julia Last Horse or Julia American Horse -- and Merill Kane Rexroat -- or how she might be otherwise related to the Rexroats."
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Post by drexroat on Sept 9, 2012 15:11:49 GMT -5
This question was posted on my behalf. Here is where I got the information about Mildred Ola Rexroat: twudigital.cdmhost.com/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p214coll2&CISOPTR=3806&CISOBOX=1&REC=1Excerpt: My grandfather, Richard Rexroat, had a brother named Merrill who was an editor and publisher. In one of the records I found he is listed to have been married to a woman named Ola. If anyone can help me confirm this link, I would be most appreciative. Debra Rexroat
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Post by grahamew on Nov 26, 2012 14:14:47 GMT -5
From Heritage Auction site: American Horse and his tipi; credited to Mitchell, so 1877. Looking at some of the other images, I'm not sure about the almost blanket attribution to Mitchell an wonder if some are the work of other photographers like Howard:
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Post by gregor on Nov 26, 2012 15:11:43 GMT -5
Here we have another "American Horse" from the same auction. It was hidden in a triple offer and the pic was titled "Sioux Squaws" Is the woman his wife Josie? Who are the children? Any ideas about the photographer? Mitchell, Howard (as Grahamew suggested) or perhaps Morrow?
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