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Post by grahamew on Aug 27, 2008 3:56:51 GMT -5
If it's the same man, Curtis mentions him and, of course, photographed him at least twice. Here's the most famous: And...
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Post by jinlian on Aug 27, 2008 4:01:02 GMT -5
I remember reading about his being a medicine man in Oglala Religion, if my memory serves me right. Did he ever travel with Cody's or other Wild West circuses? That would explain his being in Washington even if he wasn't a delegation member (same happened with George Sword in 1877).
I don't think however the Red Hawk-American Horse photograph was taken in Washington, given the not-so-formal outfit of the latter...
Update: yes, I think he's the same man photographed by Curtis.
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Post by Dietmar on Aug 28, 2008 13:26:47 GMT -5
another American Horse photo:
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Post by jinlian on Aug 28, 2008 16:01:34 GMT -5
Amazing photograph, Dietmar -thank you so much for posting it! Do you happen to know the photographer's name and when exactly it was taken? (I'd say late 1890s)
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Post by Dietmar on Aug 28, 2008 16:20:45 GMT -5
Jin,
sorry, but I took the photo from an auction site which offered no information at all... not even his name.
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Post by jinlian on Aug 28, 2008 16:32:41 GMT -5
Thank you very much, Dietmar. It seems in fact that there are more American Horse pictures around than one could think - looks like he was a popular subject for photos.
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Post by jinlian on Sept 6, 2008 3:08:39 GMT -5
Another version of the the "Buffalo Bill's Pawnee and Sioux chiefs":
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Post by jinlian on Sept 13, 2008 2:13:52 GMT -5
Still from the Wild West Show: Btw, I've some additional information to integrate and complete what has been reported in the American Horse page on the main site - I can add them here, if it's ok for everybody. Also, I'm almost finished the article on American Horse which is going to be published on early winter - still, I lack some information that most likely can be found only in the family's oral history. I've tried to contact a family memeber by a mail address found on the internet, but didn't succeed. If anyone can help in providing a contact, it will be much appreciated. Thanks!
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 13, 2008 5:59:21 GMT -5
jinlian (and all),
if you like you can post new information about American Horse (or other individuals) here on the message boards. I will try to compile all valuable information posted on the boards every few month and we will update the bio and article pages on the main site. This will take a lot of work and time so I can´t say exactly when it will be uploaded.
Good luck for your article... I hope you will inform us how and when it will be avaible!
Dietmar
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Post by jinlian on Sept 13, 2008 6:28:36 GMT -5
Thank you Dietmar - it's just that sometimes I even don't look for info, they just come out...and then I realize we have been talking about the same things months ago! I know it's hard to keep a website updated, therefore I felt it was a pity I didn't find these info earlier. The article...I'm going to write it in my mothertongue, but I'll try to write a summary. Again, thanks to all the people on the board who have helped posting information and photographs.
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Post by grahamew on Sept 15, 2008 10:19:23 GMT -5
We've had this before, but this is a slighlty bigger version and I've also posted a blown-up section. Still impossible to verify Red Cloud's presence, but the more I stare at the picture, the more I'm inclined to believe I've seen a photo of him similarly attired. The text I'm again including comes from Liveauctioneers.com. RC didn't go out with Cody in 1889 or any other time, though he did meet up with the Wild West Show in the East while he was there on business - 1897, off the top of my head. I don't know whether American Horse was with the show in 1889. I'm inclined to believe the photo shows some kind of sending off party (or perhaps one to greet those who've returned) and that's why RC is there (if, indeed, it his him) As you can see I've only posted the one photo and the detail the article refers to, but the introductory section to the text refers to the others. "Five J. E. Meddaugh Cabinet Cards Including the Mission School at Pine Ridge and Camp Scenes, all with Meddaugh's Rushville, Nebraska, backmark. Rushville, Nebraska, is 25 miles due south of Pine Ridge, South Dakota. This series of important images was made on the Pine Ridge Reservation sometime during the 18 months preceding the Wounded Knee massacre. Two of the cards bear the ink-inscribed date 1889... First, Sioux Family is inscribed in ink, verso. A mother of six young children stands in the doorway of her tipi home. A wagon is parked at the right. Seven other canvas tipis appear in the view. Second, Buffalo Bill's Outfit---1889 is inscribed in the negative at bottom, and also in ink, verso. Sixteen Oglala Lakota men and two white men pose for Meddaugh's camera, probably in April 1889. The elderly chief Red Cloud is standing seventh from left, with two eagle feathers in his hair and wearing snow goggles. His son-in-law American Horse kneels to the left, wearing an eagle feather headdress. 1889 is the only year that Red Cloud toured with the Buffalo Bill Show. American Horse, his wife and sons traveled with William F. Cody several times. The Lakota man in uniform at far right is George Sword, Captain of the Pine Ridge Agency Police. The man beside him wearing an eagle feather headdress is Painted Horse." And here's the detail from the photo: Blowing it up any further results in loss of too much clarity. Is that Rocky Bear kneeling in front, wearing two feathers in his hair? Here's a photo taken around the same time, supposedly by Cross, showing Painted Horse, Sword, allegedly American Horse at the back left, and two other men who appear to be in the photo above. Jinlian reckons it isn't AH and I'm inlclined to agree, although I suspect the photo has been touched up AND the clothes he's wearing resemble - as far as I can tell - thoise worn by the man identified as AH in the Meddaugh picture. I have another version of this which clearly dates it to 1891. Obviously, one of the dates is wrong because the men in the two photos are dressed the same. I don't know much about Meddaugh, except that he took few Indian photos (or perhaps few survived) around 89-90, but they do include one of a Ghost Dance (from a distance) at Pine Ridge. Of course, we have the usual problem with photographers copywriting the works of others... Here's the text from the Cowans site: W.R. Cross Cabinet Card of Capt. Geo. Sword with Buffalo Bill's Indians, with Hot Springs, S.D. imprint, 1891. Vintage copy. Sword (Mila Hanska), seated center, was Captain of Indian Police on the Pine Ridge Reservation, S.D. The occasion for this sitting was the departure of Oglala Lakota performers with Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, in May 1891, following the Ghost Dance uprising there five months earlier and the Wounded Knee massacre. Chief American Horse (Tasunka Wasicu), son-in-law of Red Cloud, stands at the left. Painted Horse (Tasunka Wase) is seated at left. The man seated at right holds in his left hand the otter-wrapped short staff of the Omaha Warrior Society.
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Post by jinlian on Sept 15, 2008 11:31:49 GMT -5
Hi Grahame, I think the Red Cloud photo you're referrring to, in which he's wearing similar clothes to the man in the above photo is a 1891 Morledge one: taken a few days after the Wounded Knee massacre. We should remember that in fact Buffalo Bill was in Pine Ridge in those days (there's a picture showing him with Brulé and Oglala leaders, including Crow Dog, Two Strike and American Horse), together with some of his cast members, Rocky Bear one of them (again, there's a picture of Major Bourke with Red Cloud and Rocky Bear). Maybe the last photo posted by Grahame was in fact taken in the same days? I confirm that American Horse toured with the Wild West Show om April 1886 to February 1887 and visited St.Louis, Dayton, Wheeling, Cumberland, Hagerstown, Frederick City, Washington, Philadelphia, Staten Island. In 1888 he was already back to Pine Ridge, spoke at the meetings with the Crook commission and was a member of the Lakota delegations to Washington in October 1888 and December 1889. Incidentally, at least 3 of American Horse' s sons (Ben, Samuel and Charles) later (1893-1900) joined Buffalo Bill's show. Below (left to right) American Horse and three of his sons' (Tom, Samuel and Charles)panorama picture. Tom looks a bit like the man in the George Sword photo...but I'm not 100% sure.
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Post by grahamew on Sept 15, 2008 12:30:14 GMT -5
That could be him. He doesn't look old enough to be the father (unless it's been considerably touched up to soften his features) and looks nothing like Charles. The father wasn't on the post-Wounded Knee trip to Europe and I'm not sure when he'd last travelled with Cody. 1887 in the US?
I don't know about the RC photo. It's not that one. I'm beginning to think I've been staring at the d**n photo too long!
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Post by jinlian on Sept 15, 2008 12:48:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure when he'd last travelled with Cody. 1887 in the US? Yes.1887. I'm quite sure he didn't go with the show to the UK.
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Post by jinlian on Sept 16, 2008 9:55:45 GMT -5
Speaking of the 1888 delegation, American Horse was photographed with the whole group on the steps of the Capitol and with the other Pine Ridge delegates by Bell (I'm posting the whole group and a close-up of AH below) However, I don't recall having seen any photographs of the December 1889 delegation- has anyone any further information on this?
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