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Post by grahamew on Nov 26, 2012 15:22:03 GMT -5
I prefer to see him without the hat!
Ephriam, on another thread, identified a group of Arapaho headmen and soldiers, taken at Fort Robinson, as a Howard photo. The same men, in the same dress, turn up in a slightly different photo (this time outside the fort), in the current Heritage Auction. I think I'm right in saying that Ephriam said that Howard was at the Fort shortly after Mitchell left and I wonder that if that photo of the Arapahoes is by Howard, then maybe more of those credited to Mitchell at the current auction should be be too...
Food for thought, anyhow.
Earth calling Ephriam...
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Post by kingsleybray on Nov 26, 2012 17:43:19 GMT -5
Amazing photo's of the American Horse family in 1877! Thanks so much for posting them. They make a good looking couple, don't they?
Could this wife be AH's first wife, Red Spotted Calf (or Spotted Elk Woman)?
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Henri
Full Member
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Post by Henri on Nov 27, 2012 2:56:48 GMT -5
Ephriam was on its way to Washinton DC on Nov.17 He accepted a new job overthere. So maybe he isn't settled yet. Henri
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Post by jinlian on Nov 27, 2012 16:16:28 GMT -5
Could be Sleep as well - according to rootsweb, they married in 1871. Besides, the woman in the second photograph posted by Gregor (btw, thanks for the great images), looks very like the elder Sleep in the 1907 photo (pag. 8 of this thread)
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Post by valerie on Jul 7, 2013 15:36:07 GMT -5
I've seen several people on these boards referring to LaDeane Miller's genealogy CDs. How would I go about purchasing a copy of these CDs? My husband is a direct descendant of Chief American Horse (via Thomas) and I would love to get these CDs to assist in our research.
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Post by hreinn on Dec 14, 2013 16:10:14 GMT -5
It has often been written that American Horse was a son-in-law of Red Cloud. But it seems to be wrong. The "glue" between American Horse and Red Cloud was because they were uncles/cousins. The originaly source for the son-in-law relation seems to be the introduction text to Eli S. Ricker's interview with American Horse. In that introduction text is no mention of the relevant name of Red Cloud's daughter. There is neither any mention of Red Cloud's daughter married to American Horse in the Ricker's interview itself with American Horse. No known names of American Horse's wives fits to known names of Red Cloud's daughters. Therefore it is most likely wrong that American Horse was married to Red Cloud's daughter. But American Horse and Red Cloud were uncles/cousins. As can be seen if we add together information from: 1. Ricker's interview with American Horse in 1905 2. Wendell Smoke's writings in the thread Chief Smoke and his family in 2010-2011 3. Kingsley Bray's writings in this thread in 2011 Where Standing Bull was related to both American Horse and Red Cloud. Where the common ancestor of American Horse and Red Cloud was either Standing Bull or his parents. Red Cloud - Standing BullStanding Bull was a great-grandfather to Red Cloud, as well as to the twins Big Mouth and Blue Horse. Because according to Wendell Smoke, Standing Bull was father to Body Parts. Body Parts and Looking Walker Woman had together 3 children, among them was: 1. Walks As She Thinks = Red Cloud's mother 2. Smoke = Big Mouth's and Blue Horse's father (and Red Cloud's foster father) American Horse - Standing BullThe American Horse connection to Standing Bull was suggested by Kingsley Bray. Kingsley Bray pointed out it seems that American Horse mentioned in the Ricker's interview, a family connection between his family and the Loafer (Wágluȟe) twins Big Mouth and Blue Horse. A tantalizing statement by a key Oglala leader, American Horse, is contained in the intoductory matter to his 1905 interview with Judge Ricker. When he made the statement it seems clear that he intended it as a comprehensive account of his family history, and the place of his family in the tribe. It's really unfortunate therefore that Ricker only transcribed most of this passage in his own idiosyncratic - i.e. illegible - shorthand! American Horse first told Ricker that “his grandfather was ninety-six years old when he died in 1886”, born c. 1790. American Horse expands by stating “Big Mouth & Blue Horse & Sitting Bear who was - - - - [several illegible shorthand words]. they count from these wives of his gr.gr.grandfather 5 generations” (Eli S. Ricker papers, Tablets 16, 33, in Richard E. Jensen, ed., Voices of the American West:The Indian Interviews of Eli S. Ricker, 1903-1919 [University of Nebraska Press, 2005] Vol. 1, pages 277-278). Independently of this data, we do know that American Horse's grandfather was called Sitting Bear, and that his son (American Horse's father) was called Three Bears, though he was also often known by his father's name Sitting Bear. Sitting Bear I was born toward the end of the 18th century (1790 according to the Ricker interview), Three Bears (Sitting Bear II) was born c. 1805-06 (according to American Horse's own winter count). Finally American Horse himself was born late in the 1830s, variously, 1836, 1839, 1840: take your pick (I like 1839) . So what was American Horse trying to explain in the Ricker interview ? First he obviously considers that his own father Sitting Bear II and the brothers Big Mouth and Blue Horse, Loafer band headmen and close relatives (sons?) of chief Smoke, were in some sense relatives and contemporaries. American Horse's winter count was started by American Horse's grandfather Sitting Bear (b.ca.1790). Starting with an event happing about 15 years before Sitting Bear's birth. It is probably not a coincidence that: 1. the first entry was of Standing Bull's discovery of Black Hills, for the winter 1775-1776. 2. is the only Lakota winter count which mentioned Standing Bull 3. is the only Lakota winter count which mentioned the discovery of Black Hills by the Lakotas Most likely indicating a family connection to Standing Bull. Therefore the connection between American Horse and Standing Bull. Kingsley Bray suggested a connection of American Horse to Standing Bull through Standing Bull's sisters. Where Standing Bull's sisters could have married to great-great-grandfather of American Horse. What I am proposing as a provisional suggestion is that these women who married American Horse's great-great grandfather - perhaps at a great inter-family event at the annual Lakota gathering/trade fair a year or so before 1765 - were 'sisters' to Standing Bull. Standing Bull himself, raised a Sihasapa (Blackfoot Sioux) according to Wendyll Smoke's messages here, was grandfather to Smoke. I believe that Standing Bull through a series of carefully orchestrated marriages between himself, his kin, and other leading Oglala families succeeded in placing himself at the heart of Oglala kinship networks. The ties to the Sitting Bear-American Horse line may have been the founding event in these connections. American Horse's reference to it may indicate that the marriage event was remembered as a key point in the evolution of the Oglala tribe. So both American Horse and Red Cloud were related to Standing Bull and therefore uncles/cousins. Hreinn
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Post by kingsleybray on Dec 15, 2013 5:58:14 GMT -5
hreinn, as usual you have done an amazing amount of logical thinking from a limited database! My own ideas have evolved a bit since I posted the above messages. In the last 18 months I have benefited from a long visit to Pine Ridge and spoken to descendants and other relatives. This has led to a rethinking of a whole lot of issues relating to early Oglala bands, leading families, and the emergence of the Oglala tribe. I am very busy weaving this data into my history of the Lakota before 1800 which I am finishing up.
I dont want to pre-empt / spoiler too much of my analysis, but here are some thoughts relevant to American Horse. I finally have understood to my satisfaction the apparent contradiction between George Hyde's repeated statement that American Horse and his paternal antecedents belonged to the True Oglala band, and other statements that align him with the Southern Oglala division or Kiyuksa. All Oglala are stemmed off directly or indirectly from the original or founder band, the Kiyuksa. This band split somewhat before 1750 in the incident recalled as the Dirt Scattering, hence the coining of the new name Oglala. I have fuller details on this, including the principal protagonists and a hypothetical precise date. The two bands created by the split were the Kiyuksa and the Bad Face; collectively they were called the Oglala. American Horse's family was (according to Joe American Horse's statement to me) called the "Bear clan", Mahto tiyoshpaye. At this time they were lined up with the Bad Face. I suggest their leader was Bear Boy, remembered in Black Elk's account of the hunka ceremony - which in turn is a retelling of a historic event of the 1750s. There has always been a multiplicity of 'bear' names in the American Horse family. From descendants of Standing Bull I know that their family was closest related within the tribe to (A) the American Horses and (B) the Bull Bears. My reconstruction would be now that the marriage I alluded to was that Standing Bull himself married into the American Horse family / Bear clan soon after 1760, becoming American Horse's great-great grandfather. I spoke to other Oglala people whose family trees stemmed back to Standing Bull and his son Parts of Body. There was a reunion effected between the Kiyuksa and the Bad Face bands in the 1760s and 70s - a process not a one-off event. The tribe was reformed. The name True Oglala got attached to some communities e.g. the Bear clan and the tiyoshpaye later led by Bad Wound. From subsequent marriages in the later 1700s the Bear clan became closer attached to the Kiyuksa, in particular it seems to the sub-band called Kuhinyan. One of the brothers of Sitting Bear (born in the 1780s and 90s) was called Red Bear and was identified by Tom American Horse (interview with Scudder Mekeel 1931) with the Kuhinyan. Moreover Lone Bull, interviewed by Donald Collier in 1939 listed American Horse as a Kuhinyan (although acknowledging that AH was also part of Red Cloud's band, the Bad Face or True Oglala). From winter count evidence I think that the Bear clan probably was part of the Southern Oglala until 1858 or 59, it then joined the Northern Oglalas in the Powder River country. After Pine Ridge was established the old ties to the Southern Oglalas were renewed and the American Horses settled in the Medicine Root District.
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Post by hreinn on Dec 15, 2013 17:59:52 GMT -5
Kingsley ! Thanks for this wealth of new information. It will take some time to digest this. I sent you a message on this website. Hreinn
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Post by kingsleybray on Dec 15, 2013 18:35:23 GMT -5
we also know that the Bull Bears and the Standing Bulls are very closely related. Again this will be fully developed in my study, but I was told by Wilmer Mesteth that an early chief in the Bull Bear lineage was Holy Standing Buffalo. He fits somewhere in late 1600s, early 1700s. Standing Bull, the leader who 'discovered the Black Hills', was descended from him. Their name alludes to the Calf Pipe keepers (the first of whom was called Bull Walks Standing Upright [i.e. bull that walks on his hind legs]), to whom they were related.
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Post by hreinn on Dec 16, 2013 6:34:24 GMT -5
Kingsley, it will be very interesting to read your new upcoming book about the early history of the Lakota nation. Where you will weave together information from: 1. modern Lakota people (very important) 2. old French documents 3. old American documents/interviews 4. knowledge and insight of yours from decades of research. It can't get better ! I really look forward to be able to read your book. Hreinn
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frmcd
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by frmcd on Jan 31, 2015 5:44:24 GMT -5
Hi Debra Rexroat - Ola Mildred Rexroat is my mother. Her father was a Rexroat, she did not marry one. Even after marrying my father (Arthur McDonald), she preferred to go by her "maiden" name. Her father, Ulysses Stewart Rexroat, was born in Russell County, KY in 1869, the son of Sampson Rexroat and Suzie (Garrot) Rexroat, both of Russell County, KY. Hope that helps. Forest McDonald
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frmcd
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by frmcd on Jan 31, 2015 5:54:07 GMT -5
Hi Debra Rexroat - Ola Mildred Rexroat is my mother. Her father was a Rexroat, she did not marry one. Even after marrying my father (Arthur McDonald), she preferred to go by her "maiden" name. Her father, Ulysses Stewart Rexroat, was born in Russell County, KY in 1869, the son of Sampson Rexroat and Suzie (Garrot) Rexroat, both of Russell County, KY. Hope that helps. Forest McDonald
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Post by grahamew on Jul 4, 2019 12:39:11 GMT -5
I know we've lost a lot of photos on this thread, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen this one: American Horse by CC Stotz: He also took this one, which I am familiar with: And this one with his wife (which I hadn't seen either):
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Post by saskia21 on Feb 1, 2021 13:15:06 GMT -5
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Post by grahamew on Jun 29, 2023 14:37:49 GMT -5
American Horse and others at The Palace of Machinery, St Louis. 1904
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