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Post by jasper4 on Oct 13, 2015 10:41:54 GMT -5
The actual reason for that massacre was – greed of some businessmen. After introduction of president Grant's „Peace Policy“ , many businessmen in Arizona feared a shrinkage of their contracts with the government and the Army. Many Tucson businessmen were involved in supplying Army posts and garrisons in Arizona. The feeding program being tried out at Camp Grant could potentially lead to the pacification of the Apache, the reduction of the Army garrisons and the suppression of this lucrative business. Regarding that massacre, please read a letter, written by Lieut. Royal E. Whitman, 3d U.S. Cavalry, and the affidavit of the post surgeon at Camp Grant : www.nanations.com/dishonor/massacres-of-apache.htmcinemo yet the mexicans and the other papagos had scores to settle with the apaches though it was the wrong band. and the ranchers had been raided by other apaches or simply the gringos and mexicans wanted payback and chose any apache group or the racism and bigotry of the anglos and mexican are truely valid reason also
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Post by cinemo on Oct 16, 2015 13:00:23 GMT -5
Yes, I agree „ jasper 4 “ , there were some other reasons or scores for that massacre.
These reasons or scores were utilized by W. S. Oury and his followers of Tucson.
cinemo
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Post by dT on Oct 29, 2015 18:57:45 GMT -5
There is a book about the Camp Grant Massacre. I ordered it, and after much patient waiting it arrived today.
"Shadows at Dawn" by Karl Jacoby
I haven't had a chance to read it yet. But it certainly looks like the author did extensive research, the book is very detailed. I am hoping that the book will fit together some pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, and perhaps help to explain some of the questions.
dT
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Post by seeker on Nov 10, 2015 21:32:52 GMT -5
There is a book about the Camp Grant Massacre. I ordered it, and after much patient waiting it arrived today. "Shadows at Dawn" by Karl Jacoby I haven't had a chance to read it yet. But it certainly looks like the author did extensive research, the book is very detailed. I am hoping that the book will fit together some pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, and perhaps help to explain some of the questions. dT Hello dt - I read Karl Jacoby's book several years ago and although I may be mistaken, I believe you are correct that it was well researched and is a balanced investigation into this terrible atrocity. I am finishing reading a different book now, but I will reread Jacoby's book as soon as I am finished. Although I am not Native American, I have a great deal of interest in the history of the Apache in the southwest and when finished reading would really enjoy continuing the discussion here. I am also extremely interested in what the Apache history says of the Camp Grant massacre - history is most often told by the "victors" and is often very one sided - I would enjoy hearing from the other side in this case. Thanks
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Post by dT on Nov 10, 2015 23:17:32 GMT -5
I thought that the discussion in Karl Jacoby's book about the early days of Mexico and the O'odham Nation was especially helpful. That early history was a "bonus" in the book and I thought it was eye-opening. I haven't yet reached the discussion of the Massacre itself.
I am also hoping that a member of the Aravaipa Community will come here and offer some thoughts about the Massacre. I would like to see that point of view expressed.
This forum mostly focuses on history. My point of view is different. It is extraordinary to me that the massacre of so many people can be "forgotten" as if there are no consequences. Our society pretends there is no Spirit World. But the violent deaths of 144 people, mostly women and children, is not something that simply disappears ... as if it never happened. Too many people dead, too many treaties broken, too much land stolen.
dT
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Post by seeker on Nov 23, 2015 22:33:33 GMT -5
dT - I am re-reading Karl Jacoby's book right now and still have quite a bit more to read before I am finished. I had forgotten how he had organized his chapters as you mentioned breaking things apart into short "histories" of the 3 races/groups involved in this terrible attrocity. It does help to give a background of all the different interactions taking place at the time and what led to the murders of the Native Americans. I found another interesting article worth reading as well - I've only skimmed through it, but it appears to have some descriptions, thoughts and memories from Apache who were just children when it happened. It looks to be well worth reading and I hope to find time this weekend to read it through. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the book and I echo your hope that we could hear hear from someone(s) in the Aravaipa Community. Best to you. faculty.utep.edu/LinkClick.aspx?link=Colwell_Camp+Grant.pdf&tabid=12199&mid=151855
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Post by dT on Dec 2, 2015 21:54:28 GMT -5
Here's an interesting tidbit. I was doing research in Southern Arizona, going through old autobiographies from the 1850's to 1890's. I came across one quick note from a man living in Tucson. It was just a short remark, and he didn't consider it to be a 'big thing'. He moved on to other comments. But his words said something like this ...
"The locals here in Tucson are organizing, so they can go and clean out the Apaches at San Carlos."
So this type of attitude was prevalent for the day. I don't think that the "locals" did "clean out San Carlos", but it shows the deep prejudices during that time period.
dT
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Post by jasper4 on Dec 26, 2015 13:36:25 GMT -5
1871
April
Some eighty " prominent men" composed the organization called the Tucson Committee of Public Safety. A more appropriate name should have been Allied Murderers of the Santa Cruz Valley. On the roster were merchants, frighters, saloon and hotel keepers and men of various occupations joined by the goal of exterminating the Apache in Arizona. A surprise attack on Camp Grant Indians was been planned. Captain Stanwood, the new commander arrived about the first of the month and took command of the post. He was a just and kind man willing to help the Apache. He stated: " They had so won in me. That from my first idea of treating them justly and honestly as an officer of the Army, I had come to feel a strong personal interest in helping them. I had come to feel respect for men who ignorant in the white men ways and naked were still ashamed to lie or steal and for women who would work cheerfully like slaves to clothe themselves and their children, but untaught held their virtue above price."
APACHE CHRONICLES
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Post by jasper4 on Dec 28, 2015 16:45:53 GMT -5
" On the morning of April 30, I was at breakfast at 7:30 when a dispatch was brought to me from Captain Penn, commanding officer of Fort Lowell informing me that a large party had left Tucson on the 28th with the avowed purpose of killing all the Indian at this post. I immediately sent the two interpreter , mounted to the Indian camp, with orders to warn the chief and for them to bring the entire party inside my post. As I had no Calvary, and but about fifty infantry ( all recruits) , I couldn't leave the post to go to their defense. My messengers returned in about an hour, with intelligence that they couldn't find no living Indians. The camp was burning and the ground strewed with their dead and mutilated women and children. I immediately mounted a party of about twenty soldiers and citizens and sent them with the post surgeon, with a wagon to bring in the wounded, if any could be found. The party returned late in the afternoon, having found no wounded . Early the next morning I took a similar party, with spades and shovels and went out and buried all the dead. While at the work many of the men came to the spot and indulged in their expressions of grief, too wild to be described." Captain Stanwood, post's commander
APACHE CHRONICLES
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Post by jasper4 on Dec 29, 2015 14:16:40 GMT -5
1871
April
Part 3. Sworn report of Dr. C.B. Briestly, acting assistant surgeon, US Army, stationed at Fort Grant:
" On my arrival at the Apache camp I found that I should have little use for wagon or medicine; the work had been too throughly done.....those who had been wounded in the first instance had their brains beaten out with stones. Two of the best looking women were lying in such position, and from the appearance of the genital organs and if their wounds, there can be no doubt they were first ravished and then shot dead. Nearly all of the dead were mutilated. One baby of some ten months was shot twice and one leg hacked nearly off."
May To the voters of Tucson, the men who staged the Camp Grant massacre were heroes and deserving of reward. In May 17,the ringleaders were given jobs on their city.
APACHE CHRONICLES
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