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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 18:01:52 GMT -5
What happened with that? Dt was sure there might be blood in the streets!!!
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Post by dT on Mar 4, 2015 18:38:06 GMT -5
as far as I know right now, everything is calm. And I hope it stays that way. I try to get updates every few days.
The San Carlos folks have been very peaceful, and I think that the Forest Service appreciates that. Really, they are not doing any harm by occupying a few sites in the Oak Flats campground. That place is not exactly a super-busy camp site.
I don't think this is over. No way, no how. But it just hasn't come to a head yet - there is no face off yet. I will post if I hear any new developments.
dT
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Post by dT on Mar 13, 2015 13:55:12 GMT -5
Update on Friday, March 13. Everything is quiet at Oak Flats. The protest continues in a very calm and peaceful way. The future is always uncertain, and your prayers are greatly appreciated!!
RedPaint - I don't think this is another Ferguson, Missouri. Oak Flats is a remote campground and very quiet. Most importantly, the San Carlos Apaches have chosen to express themselves through a peaceful, spiritual movement. They are claiming a right to access this land for their worship and ceremonial purposes - just as they have done for centuries. They do not have weapons, and they are following a strict rule of non-violence. It is not clear how this will be resolved, because the mining company certainly wants to tear up the land.
dT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 18:45:07 GMT -5
dT I, as most others have never heard of Oak Flats. The courts will decide the outcome of this case, and no, they are not stacked against the Inde. If this is truly Apache reservation territory, then this will be a slam dunk for the Apaches. My guess is it is not. My guess is that the mining companies have legal claims, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I don't know how this will turn out, but my guess is there will be big wampum paid to the Apaches and that is what they are looking for....and they will be OK with that....open another casino somewhere in New Mexico
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Post by dT on Mar 13, 2015 23:51:54 GMT -5
I wish things were that straightforward.
Oak Flats is part of the National Forest in Arizona. As such, it is public land. In principle, it should be protected for all Americans and not just the Apaches. In fact, President Eisenhower set aside Oak Flats and the surrounding area to preserve it for all Americans. And so it remained pristine from 1950-2015. You can camp at Oak Flats, and so can anyone else. It's just that is fairly remote, undeveloped, and so not many people go there.
The Apaches have been using Oak Flats for centuries. It is a sacred area for the Apache tribe, especially the folks at San Carlos. It plays an important part in their dances, such as the Crown Dancer ceremonies. Oak Flats is not on the San Carlos reservation. However, the Apache people have been able to use it - because the National Forest was held in perpetuity for all Americans.
That is ... Until now.
Senator John McCain transferred mining rights at Oak Flats in the Defense Authorization Bill at the end of 2014. It is unclear how he was able to do this. But Congress approved the Bill and the President signed it. Therefore, the mining company has access to the land by law, now.
THAT is the inherent conflict.
This is not a small thing for the San Carlos Apaches. Few outside people realize the importance of Oak Flats to the tribe. For the Chiricahuas there - this is equivalent to their 9/11. Those are their exact words! They lost Oak Flats when the land was taken long ago. But they had continued access because of the National Forest designation. Now the land will be torn up and turned into a giant gravel pit. But for the Apache people, the land must be sacred and pristine. For this reason, they will not accept a payout, or any kind of payment as a compromise.
I don't know what the resolution will be. Truthfully, they need help to fight this in the court system. But that takes a long time, and it won't stop the land from being bulldozed and mined this year.
So I don't know where this goes. But the protest continues. It is not getting much media coverage, but it is ongoing.
I am not Apache. But I am supporting the folks at San Carlos with this protest. The Chiricahuas have lost EVERY sacred area to the State of Arizona or the Government ... the Chiricahua Monument, the Cochise Stronghold, and now Oak Flats is threatened. All their sacred places are gone, or under threat of being seized. Somewhere we have to draw the line and respect the dignity of the tribe.
dT
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Post by pullingup on Jul 15, 2015 13:34:42 GMT -5
There is a facebook page called "Apache Stronghold" that has information on the Oak Flat issue and the current trip to D.C. The Oak Flat issue is primarily connected with the San Carlos Apache tribe and has little or nothing to do with the Chiricahua Apache Tribe. Oak Flat is not in Chiricahua traditional territory and is not considered a sacred site for the Chiricahua. The Mescalero Apache Tribe that has some Chiricahua descendents and the Fort Sill Apache Tribe that is the successor to the Chiricahua and Warm Springs Apaches are both supportive of the San Carlos Apaches on their Oak Flats issue. I suspect the Chiricahua name is being used by some San Carlos Apaches to draw attention.
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Post by dT on Jul 16, 2015 22:45:36 GMT -5
There are definitely people at San Carlos who consider themselves to be Chiricahuas. I don't know how many people fall into this group. I have not had time to ask the Apaches (San Carlos) there about their clans. Therefore, I would be cautious about making any general statements about the people. I don't know how many clans have been using Oak Flats as their sacred area. But it is certainly true that the Oak Flats area is very sacred to some of the people. They have been using that place for generations for their ceremonies.
It is very unfair for the Greater Society (America) to take this away, or to threaten to take it away. The whole process is completely unnecessary. And the only motive is greed.
dT
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