Kingsley - I have to admit my daughter had to register me for this site and spent a half-hour teaching me how to use it. I don't know how to retrieve the message you say you sent. Can you tell me what to click on to find it?
I'm hoping you sent a way to contact you directly since I have much to tell you about Crow Feather No. 1, e.g. the Crow Feather Papers in the S.D Heritage Center; the Red Cloud affidavit re Crow Feather and his daughter, Iron Cedar Woman (my ancestor), and I have some questions I'd like to ask you.
Post by kingsleybray on Nov 20, 2010 15:08:01 GMT -5
karen, at the top of the page you should see a line reading "karendx, you have xx messages". Click on the word messages and it will take you to my message. Alternatively you can click on my name and my email details are there. Let me know if you have any further problems Kingsley
Henri has sent me this excellent scan of a photograph taken at the Cheyenne River Indian council at Pierre, South Dakota, in 1908. One of the Indians in the picture is the Itazipco Afraid of Enemy, the son of Looks Up, who is mentioned earlier in this thread (see page 1).
standing from (left to right): Major Bentley, Little Shield, Lone Eagle, Iron Lightning, Fish Gut, Charging First, G.H. Jaynes seated: Brown Thunder, C.H. Engelsby, Governor Vessey, Colonel Frost, Yellow Owl, Giles Tapetonwan/Tapeola (interpreter) seated or kneeling in front: Afraid of Enemy (Feared by Enemy), Pust On His Shoes (Swan), White Bull (Lazy White Bull) (identifications according to Donovin Sprague, Cheyenne River Sioux, page 71)
Afraid of Enemy
Thank you Henri!!!
Last Edit: Oct 25, 2012 14:32:17 GMT -5 by Dietmar
Hello. Decided to revive this little branch. There are several issues.
How to Drive a respected Kingsley, the typical size of the gangs was 8-15 lodges.
Hayden, ca. 1857, tabulated two Sans Arc bands, the Minisa, rated at 80 lodges and led by Crazy Heart; and the Plenty Horses (not subsequently noted), 75 lodges, led by Crow Feather. The Minisa were more identified with the eastern end of the Sans Arc range, within the mainstem Missouri valley; while the nickname Plenty Horses indicates a more westerly distribution, with access to the horse trade region south and west of the Black Hills. This band therefore had closer links, through Upper Miniconjou relatives, to Southern Teton trade partners.
During the period 1850-80 up to eight bands made up the Sans Arc tribe (chiefs as period 1865-80):
1. Itazipco-hca, Sans Arc Proper 2. Minisa, Red Water (Black Hawk?) 3. Sina-luta-oin, Red Cloth Ear-ring (Black Eagle) 4. Woluta-yuta, Ham Eaters (Blue Coat) 5. Mazpegnake, Metal Hair Ornaments (Brown Thunder) 6. Tatanka-cesli, Bull Dung (Spotted Eagle, Red Bear, Looks Up) 7. Siksicela, Bad Ones (Elk Head, Martin Charger) 8. Tiyopa-ocannumpa, Pipe at Door
Thus based on the number of stalls that receive each of the two divisions was about 4 band. That in principle the same as the list of ghosts above, wherein said 8 band. You can not tell how they were distributed in two divisions?
The second question. It seems I met at Hyde mention that the name Sans Arc awarded in 1863 (the case with uikte, which proposed to postpone the soldiers and weapons at this moment attacked by enemies). How true this is? Prior to this incident, the original name for the Sans Arc was Minissha? If this is true, whether the incident was in 1863 and not earlier?
Post by kingsleybray on Dec 4, 2014 17:22:45 GMT -5
The eight Sans Arc bands (tiyoshpaye) probably break down into the two maximal bands something like this:
1. Minisha proper (I now think the Yellow Hawk family probably are part of this outfit) 2. Red Cloth Earring (headman Black Eagle) 3. Ham Eaters (Blue Coat headman) 4. Smokes at Door, or Pipe at Entrance, Tiyopa-chanupa (keepers of the Calf Pipe associated with this band) 5. Shikshichela (according to Bronco Le Beau, interview with KMB, 2002, they were D-Dakota speakers/Santee, related to the Oglala-Brule Kiyuksa band, joined Minisha in mid-1700s)
B. Real Sans Arcs 6. Real Sans Arcs proper (Crow Feather headman) 7. Metal Hair Ornaments (Yellow Thunder headman) 8. Bull Dung (Spotted Eagle, Red Bear, Looks Up headmen).
You've misunderstood Hyde's reference, grigoyev. Hyde meant that in the year 1863 Lt Caspar Collins recorded the story of the winkte. It was an old story. Victor Douville the great Rosebud reservation historian told me that the the No Bows/Sans Arc incident took place about the same time as when the Sichangu camp was burned out - resulting in their new tribal name, Burnt Thighs or Brules. As you know that fell, according to Battiste Good's winter count, in 1762-63. The name Sans Arc was first recorded by Tabeau - as "Hitasiptchone" - in c. 1803-04.
Another question. In the subject of Metal Hair Ornaments Band (Mazpegnake) found the following: The latter is another relative of the Brown Thunders. Born ca. 1850 he was one of three sons of Charging Hawk, a brother of Brown Thunder I. Thunder Elk's full brother was First Eagle, who married Lame Deer's daughter (Miniconjou, Wakpokiyan band) and is noted in the CENSUS as living in Fool Heart's band. His half-brother (by a different mother) was Beautiful Bald Eagle. This whole family traced their origins back to a man named Builds Fire, who was probably born about 1795. He was the father of Charging Hawk, Brown Thunder I, Cane Woman, and others. He (and several of his descendants, specifically Charging Hawk and Beautiful Bald Eagle) were identified with the Ashke (Lock of Hair) band, an ancient Miniconjou band that had effectively split up by the period under consideration. Key families had become identified with the Sans Arcs Metal Hair Ornaments band. It looks to me that another cluster of families in the Sans Arc CENSUS list, centring on the sequence No's 268-282, correspond to the Metal Hair Ornaments.
It turns out that this group could be formed from mixed marriages between Sans Arc and Ashke? And maybe some of Ashke not shifted to the brulee and a Sans Arc in the early 1800s?
The great chief Crow Feather was born late in the 18th c., my best guess would be about 1790. He died in 1858 or early 1859. He was recognized as the head chief of the Sans Arcs for much of the period 1825 until his death. When he died had no adult sons living. The seemingly eldest son had his father's name, was born about 1840. At the treaty of Ft Sully in 1865 he was recognized as his father's successor by the tribe and the treaty commission. He is noted as living or visiting at Grand River Agency in 1869, and at Cheyenne River Agency in 1870. However he died there later the same year. He was succeeded nominally by his brother One Feather - this is the Moses One Feather who died at Cheyenne River in 1919. He was recognized as the head chief, and known as Crow Feather, noted as head chief at e.g. the Black Hills councils near Red Cloud Agency in 1875.But he apparently played no real role in tribal politics. He had two younger brothers (Louis and Rawhide Crow Feather) and a sister Her Pipe, all born about 1850, all died about 1880 - according to this heirship file.
To what tiyoshpaye did Crow Feather 1, Crow Feather 2 and Crow Feather 3 (a.k.a. One Feather) belong to ?
Did Crow Feather 1 and Iron Whiteman belong to the same band, i.e. Bull Dung band (Tatanka Chesli) ?