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Post by matotanka on Feb 21, 2009 0:51:36 GMT -5
Owe Sica means "Bad Tracks," not Bad Wound. Bad Wound would be Opi Sica.
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Post by aurelia on May 5, 2009 21:10:43 GMT -5
My Great grandmother was part of Spotted Eagle's band - she had lots of stories about when they were at the LBH, when they were in Canada and when they left. Her father and Spotted Eagle were brothers. Her older brother Bear With Horns was killed at the LBH. Some list have him as a Hunkpapa - White Bull has him as an Itazipcho.
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Post by kingsleybray on May 6, 2009 7:06:50 GMT -5
Aurelia, welcome to the message boards at American-Tribes.com. I am sure I speak for everyone when I say how much we'd love to hear any of your great-grandma's stories! If you feel able to share them, that would be just great, ensuring the traditions are preserved for future generations.
I would also like to ask if you could tell us any more about Spotted Eagle's family - who was your great-grandmother's father? And do you know the names of Spotted Eagle's parents? It would help me and other students of Lakota history to understand the family relations and kinship dynamics of the Sans Arc oyate - such an important part of the Lakota nation but very much neglected in the white man's history!
Anyway, thanks again for sharing your information, and I was excited to learn that Bear with Horns was brother to Spotted Eagle.
Pila Maye
Kingsley Bray
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Post by Dietmar on May 6, 2009 10:25:15 GMT -5
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Post by aurelia on May 6, 2009 19:10:10 GMT -5
Bear With Horns was Spotted Eagles' nephew. My great, great grandfather was Fights the Thunder his parents were Red Thunder and Iron Branch. They stayed with Sitting Bull the longest. Spotted Eagle and Red Horse were the last to leave Sitting Bull. Red Horse left first and then Spotted Eagle. My great grandmother's name was Grows in a Day - she was named after the LBH. It was because she had lost her oldest brother and because the family had to leave suddenly and make their way to Canada as well as the suffering and hardship of all of that. Her parents named her because in one day she was required to learn about loss. I have her Indian name. My aunt (my mother's youngest sister) was named Spotted Eagle Woman after Spotted Eagle so our family would always know we had close ties with him. My aunts remember his son who was an old man when they were children. I have always felt that the history of the Itazipcho has never really been paid much attention. Our family never wanted to be on the reservation and when forced our lands are as far from the Old Ft. Bennett as they could get. They were hostiles to the very end - but also when forced on the reservation they sought ways of surviving that allowed their children to grow up without feeling defeated. I think the reason our family was able to do this was the elders belived that you should not depend on the government for your survival. By staying out of the view of the agent you had a better chance. The idea of fighting for every scrap of food that was handed out worked against what the hunting bands belived in. Sitting Bull said "let others carry the manure and drink the coffe and eat the sugar of the whiteman he was going north to hunt." That statement cleary explains why so many families on Cheyenne River would not freely talk. Plus so many of them had been considered hostile plus knowing what happened at Wounded Knee to our relatives you can understand why know one wanted to talk for fear of being hauled off to the stockdade. I'll get some of the stories together and write them out for you.
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Post by ephriam on May 7, 2009 0:33:10 GMT -5
Welcome Aurelia,
Thank you for your willingness to share more about your family.
The name of your great great grandfather, Fights With Thunder, first appears in the agency records in 1881. As you probably already know, Spotted Eagle surrendered at Fort Keogh on October 30, 1880 with about 495 people. In the summer of 1881, he and the Itazipcho were transferred to the Standing Rock Agency. He is counted there with 402 people. Then in August or September 1881, he transfered with 36 families to the Cheyenne River Agency while the largest percentage of the Itazipcho remained at Standing Rock. (Most of these finally joined their relatives at Cheyenne River in the spring of 1882)
Among those listed in the 36 families transferred with Spotted Eagle from Standing Rock to Cheyenne River in the late summer of 1881 is Fights Thunder. He then appears in the regular Cheyenne River Reservation census from 1886 through at least 1900.
Do you know if Fights the Thunder and Spotted Eagle had the same parents (Red Thunder and Iron Branch)? Were there other brothers or sisters in the family? Do you know what year Fights the Thunder died?
ephriam
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Post by Dietmar on May 7, 2009 14:17:59 GMT -5
Thank you Aurelia for this fascinating information, and also to Ephraim for adding his data. Here is what the Ziebach County History has about Fights the Thunder: FIGHTS THE THUNDER told by Ed Clown Fights the Thunder was a Medicine Man could understand the wolf, the coyote, crow, and the martin. They warned him when the Crow or other enemies or storms coming. Before he was born he went all over. Later he told them all about what he had seen and a girl were chosen. They went to the Black Hills and on top of the hills. They were in a cave and went to the other end of it. The was cave very hot and the opening had been closed up. The cave was one of which the buffalo went to by the thousands when an Indian killed another Indian. When that would happen, the people would have to hunt rabbit deer for a month for there would be no buffalo. The buffalo would disappear into hills and stay in the caves.
Fights the Thunder was also taken further west, to where water boiled up out of earth. There was a man there who kept that place and he had a room there. He told Fights the Thunder to trust him, that the boiling water would not hurt him. He took him down through that water and down below there were rooms without any water in them and were painted all colors. And they took him to the oceans, down to the deepest part and he saw where the biggest whales stayed down there. They took him to all of the continents and he saw everything. When they came back, then they were born. They were not brother and sister. The girl had just been chosen to go with him. She died later, because she was supposed to make ten little dresses, as doll dresses, out of buckskin and she did not do it as she was supposed to. She waited and then made all ten dresses at once, and so she died. In the old days, they would all come together in the summer and camp. They would have the Sun Dance and other ceremonies and the chiefs would decide where they would camp for the winter. They would all stay in a place that had a lot of wood. In early spring, the bands would go their different ways to hunt. In June they would meet, and then the bands would separate until the fall. This was their range, from here to the Black Hills, but later they would go south and west into Montana and north.
Mi ye yi lo/Fights the Thunder was born in 1828 to Red Thunder and Iron Branch/Melt None. His sister, Iron Branch (1827-1897), married Six Feet. Fights the Thunder (James) had two wives. Pazala/Thin Out/Rail/Rotation was the mother of Cega/Paul Red Bird (1861-1933); Amos Clown (1862-1943); and Grows in a Day/Lucy (b. 1872: Mrs. Poor Buffalo). Fights the Thunder died in 1916 at Thunder Butte.
(South Dakota's Ziebach County, History of the Prairie", published in 1982 by the Ziebach County Historical Society, Dupree, SD)
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Post by aurelia on May 7, 2009 16:09:54 GMT -5
I grew up with Ed Clown - I called him Lala Ed (Lala a dervitive of Tunkasila - it would be the same as saying Papa rather then Grandfather) he was an important part of my childhood. He was the son of Amos Clown who described in the Ziebach County History when his father Fights the Thunder, his brother Red Bird, his sister Grows in a Day all ended up at Thunder Butte. He talks about their leader Spotted Eagle leading them there.The 36 families would have had to have been his closest relatives. As I mentioned before My great grandmother was Grows in a Day.
I'm sure your aware of the fact that Amos Clown was married to Crazy Horse's sister Julia Iron Cedar. Everyone knew this in our families that Crazy Horse's mother was a Minconju and that he always rode in from the North with his close relatives Hump, etc. In the Lakota world if you were a boy you closest to your male relatives of your generation. It was the older ones who taught you the important things about your hygene, etc. It was your mother's brothers who were responsible for teaching you how to hunt. I don't understant all of this arguement about who was who. It wasn't until after the act of 1889 that the seperation of the Lakota became so prominant regarding what band you came from. It was the family hunting group that was the most important and basically still is to this day.
I don't know if Spotted Eagle and Fights the Thunder had the same parents. I'm sure if nothing else they had the same father but not necessarily the same mother. But it didn't matter if you were brothers you were brothers and first cousins are the same as brothers and sisters. In the Lakota world the degree of relationship is unimportant. It's is how you refer to a person that is important. Although my great grandmother and Red Bird were brother and sister four generations from me - Paul Red Birds great grandchildren and I are very close and consider ourselves very close relatives. The degree of seperation is totally unimportant we belong to the same tiospaye. There are a lot of families who don't know who their relatives are or claim their relatives in the same manner as non-indians with the concept of first cousin once removed, etc. In our family we claim our relatives in the same manner as we have for thousands of years. Where can I locate the 1881 roles? I have the 1886 roles and have found all of my relatives on them. It would be nice to get the 1881 information.
My Unci (what we called our great grandmother) Poor Buffalo told the story about when they were at the various forts being held like captives. That her mother Pazala learned how to make fry bread - she said it was so good that the soldiers and whitemen would buy it from her. We still use her same receipe (or that's what we believe) and it is still the best I have ever tasted. She also said that after the battle and the people stripped the clothing off of the soldiers they looked like white flour sacks scattered on the hill. I always have found that interesting. This was a little girls view point, which is very seldom documented.
She also said that she was with her mother and aunt when they searched for her brother's body. She never really said if they found it but they did find a puppy and she wanted the puppy and started crying - by then the other soldiers were said to be coming so they had to leave. Because she was crying and wouldn't stop her aunt got the puppy and then they ran away from the soldiers. These were her important memories of that day - she told other things but as children we loved the story of the puppy.
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Post by ephriam on May 8, 2009 9:08:39 GMT -5
Aurelia:
The 1881 list came from a document at the National Archives Regional Branch in Kansas City. I will see if I can scan my copy and upload the image here.
The 36 families who came to Cheyenne River with Spotted Eagle are as follows. Please let us know if you recognize other family names here:
Spotted Eagle Ashes Lone Woman Kill the ___ [Brave Thunder?] Kill the Bear White Bear Lone Eagle Iron White Man Kill the Bear [#2] One Ghost Red Bull Black Dog Red Dog Spotted Eagle Jr. Poor Bear Uses His Knife White Buffao Bull Long Mandan Fights Thunder Shooter Poor Elk Big Hawk Two Eagles Red Star Thunder Hawk Fool Horse Black Horse Shell Necklace King Man Camps as He Comes Walking Bear Red Bear Fool Soldier Hawk Bear Two Band Little Shield
Thank you, ephriam
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Post by aurelia on May 9, 2009 20:55:28 GMT -5
The names I recognize that are members of my family are Red Bear, Uses His Knife, as well as Fights Thunder. The sons of Fights Thunder were Clown and Red Bird. They are listed in the 1886 roles as seperate families with their own wives with their children. You'll find Fights Thunder listed on th 1890 U.S. Census with Red Bird. Do you know if they list the members of the familiy or just the headmen? I hope you can scan the information - my family will be very happy to get all the information.
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Post by emilylevine on May 17, 2009 12:01:22 GMT -5
REGARDING CROW FEATHER AND THE PIPE WRITTEN ABOUT BY THE NY TIMES: (that Kingsley and Ephriam were discussing on this thread this past December)
This may provide a possible explanation as to what pipe the Times was writing about. It comes from a two-page, incomplete, handwritten manuscript titled "Biography of Crow Feather." Referring, I believe, to the man you are calling Crow Feather II. I found it in a file of assorted Lakota related things in the Weideman Collection at the SD State Archives. It may have been written by Samuel Charger.
"...He was about 18 years old when he built the cabin or in the year 1824, and he made a pipe which was used by the war parties in later years and which is regarded as secondary to the original peace pipe, this pipe is said in the early days regard [sic] as sacred and is always tied to a pole, and is set on some hill away from the camp.... ....built the log cabin in which he performs his ceremonies and as he is the first Indian to manufacture a lead [?] pipe, [here the manuscript ends!]
The ms. also says that Crow Feather was a recognized medicine man. I am thinking it is likely that the pipe was passed on to the son and that this may be the pipe in question. Any thoughts?
Josephine Waggoner writes about the man you call Crow Feather III: She says he was born in 1842, died June 18, 1919.
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Post by swiftbird659 on Nov 3, 2010 13:50:53 GMT -5
I am also trying to find the parents of Spotted Eagle. Can anyone help me confirm my records? They show,Moses Spotted Eagle CR-841,(1840-1923) m.1879 1st to Mollie Walks Rattling CR-?,(1834-1907) 2nd to Margurite Swimmer CR-2668,(1859-?). He had one child named Mollie Spotted Eagle,Gilbert, Kingman CR-2719 aka Mollie Two Tails married 1st to Henry Two Tails Gilbert CR-Unal.,(1865-1890) 2nd to Harry A. Kingman CR-838,(1870-1954). I also show ration ticket no. 186 listed as Spotted Eagle Jr., husband, age 41, Her Eagle,wife, age 40, Center Eagle, (Frank Spotted Eagle), son, age, 14.I also have a picture post card of Scorched Lightning by L.A. Huffman, ca. 1880 it reads (was a noted warrior within Spotted Eagle`s band). could this be the son of Chief Spotted Eagle CR-841,ration ticket no. 318? I wonder why he does not show up on the agency sensus or allotment rolls?
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Post by ftpeckpabaksa on Nov 18, 2010 0:00:15 GMT -5
I also saw the NYT report. I wanted to ask the same question.
With regard to Looks Up...I wonder if he could of been captured with Short Bull and his Sicangu near Wolf Point Montana? I do like the research, it shows a lot of where the people were and also, its difficult as you have to keep your own chart, but to show which groups were "friendly" and "hostile". Also, if it shows, but the group that surrenrdered to Miles, when Sitting Bull broke away and there were Chiefs sent up river.....who were the leaders of the Itazipco in that camp. It is very interesting.
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Post by swiftbird659 on Nov 18, 2010 12:15:07 GMT -5
Hello to all, i to am interested in the surrender of these Chiefs. This is what i find in my records of the events taken place on or about the 26th day of Oct.The Indians asked for a council, Sitting Bull expressed a desire for what Miles called " an old fashioned peace". He wanted the troops to go into the camp for winter and he and his people be permitted to trade for ammunition at the agencies and hunt buffalo in peace. Miles naturally refused, and in turn, his offer of the government`s terms of disarmament and surrender were rejected. Negotiations were broken off and a running battle covering 42 miles followed. A large portion of the camp, nearly all of the Minneconjou and Sans Arcs, were driven down Bad Route creek and across the Yellowstone where they surrendered. Sitting Bull and some 30 lodges escaped early in the battle and made for the Dry Fork route to Fort Peck. The majority of the other Hunkpapas and Spotted Eagle`s Sans Arcs also managed to elude the troops before the surrender took place. Unable to supply an escort for his prisoners, amounting to approximately 300 lodges and 2000 souls, Miles sent five of the surrendered chiefs to the Cheyenne Agency as hostages. This he hoped would ensure the arrival of the entire camp at that place. The Indians were given 35 days to make the trip,but upon the experation of that time only some 35 lodges, led by a few of the immediate relitives of the hostage chiefs, had arrived. The hostages taken were Red Skirt and White Bull, Minneconjou chiefs, Black Eagle and Sunrise, Sans Arc chiefs, and a head warrior of the latter band, Foolish Thunder. Red Skirt`s nephew, Bull Eagle, came in on Nov. 31, along with Little Bear, White Bulls son, and Sans Arc John or Jumping Bear, a relative of one of the Sans Arc headmen. The relentless activity of the troops under Mile`s command soon made it apparent that Canada was the only place of safety remaining to the Sioux. Consequently on march 3, 57 lodges under Four Horns, together with Medicine Bear`s band of Yanktonais, crossed the line 120 miles east of the Mounted Police post at Fort Walsh. Late in May Sitting Bull with 135 lodges of his own Hunkpapas, Spotted Eagle`s Sans Arcs, and a small band of Minneconjous under Swift Bird, completed the exodus. Sitting Bull`s party was the last of any size to cross the line prior to the arrival of the Terry Commision late in October.(NDSHS, July, 1955, vol. 22 Number 3).
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Post by karendx on Nov 20, 2010 8:07:49 GMT -5
Kingsleybray - If you're still posting here, I have some info on Chief Crow Feather No.1 for you and would like to ask you some questions about things you posted.
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