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Post by grigoryev on Nov 24, 2014 15:21:46 GMT -5
hello everyone
Most rapidly changing division Teton, along with the Oglala and Brulle was Miniconjou. Group Miniconjou constantly moving. First to Brule, Potos to Oglalam, then disconnect Oohenonpa etc. Let's try to make the reconstruction of the structure of the unit, indicating tiyospaye and leading families, by analogy with the structure of the Oglala.
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Post by grigoryev on Nov 24, 2014 16:01:01 GMT -5
In the early 19th century, mentions the following bands: Ashke Glaglaheca Wakpokinyan Wanhin Wega
What tiwahe were leading in these bands in the early 19th century?
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Post by kingsleybray on Nov 24, 2014 16:36:15 GMT -5
In c. 1800 there were three main ‘maximal bands’ – units with claims to specific subsets of the tribal domain – among the Miniconjou. These were the Miniconjou proper, the Taku-hkpa-ya, and the Wanonwakteninan. Each of these comprised several hundred people, and several extended family bands (tiyoshpaye). Behind this overview we can detect the presence of an ancestral band, the Hohwozhu, which during the 18th century attracted bands from other Lakota and Dakota divisions. My growing hunch is that the Hohwozhu family line threads through many of the historic bands listed by e.g. Riggs and Josephine Waggoner. Tonight let’s look at the Taku-hkpa-ya. In 1795 Truteau assigned them 80 lodges, approximately 800 people. My analysis suggests they should break down something like this: A. Wakpokiyan Flies Along the Creek • Wakpokiyan proper One Horn family: from Santee 1745? • Hunkapi, or “Grandmother Band” (from Hohwozhu) Lame Deer family • Shikshichela from Santee 1745? • Big Belly from intermarriage with Two Kettles? • Red-Topped Tipis Red Warbonnet – from Santee; to Brule 1802+
B. Wagleza-owin Gartersnake Earring • Wagleza-owin proper Little Crow family • From Hohwozhu Humpback family • Another tiyoshpaye? Ista-caniye?
C. Oyuhpe or Taku-hkpa-ya from Oglala 1767 • Oyuhpe • Cut Testicles • Wakan
D. Ashke Lock of Hair, Wrapped Hair (Not Braided) • Ashke Iron Man: from Wazhazha/Brule c. 1790+ • No Mother from Hohwozhu: intermarried with Ashke, elements of both return to Brule 1807-20
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Post by grigoryev on Nov 24, 2014 16:49:26 GMT -5
Thanks Kingsley
May suggest some sources on the history Miniconjou? I was so inspired by your topic on the organization of the Oglala people that I had the idea to make similar layout and other nations Teton Lakota. Can try to make the basic structures for 10-20 years, similar to the Oglala? I invite everyone to join
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Post by kingsleybray on Nov 26, 2014 17:26:07 GMT -5
The second maximal band, or oshpaye, we need to consider was the Miniconjou proper. In c. 1800 I think they number about 75 lodges, 750 people, about 10 or 12 tiyoshpaye. Their principal leader was Thunder Hoop. I think they break down something like this:
A. Unkche-yuta, Dung Eaters. Corn Man (father of Crazy Horse's stepmothers) was the itanchan by 1830s
1. Unkche-yuta proper. 2. Maga-yuha, field owner 3. Maka-mignake (associated after c. 1850 with White Hollow Horns-Little Bear)
B. Glaglahecha, Slovenly. Associated with Swan dynasty from c. 1740 forward. 4. Glaglahecha proper. 5. Black-Topped Tipis 6. Swan 7. Tahuka (Buffalo Hide) - derived from core Hohwozhu band?
C. Inyanha-owin, Musselshell Earrings. 8. Pte San Hunka tiyoshpaye (Joseph White Bull belongs to dynastic family) 9. Feather Earrings tiyoshpaye 10. Fire Thunder tiyoshpaye
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dado
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by dado on Nov 27, 2014 13:04:45 GMT -5
Hi Kingsley, we are thrilled again to read from you and your research results. It is very exciting to read the "Oglala band structure", but it is just as exciting to learn from you news about the development of the Saone bands. Unfortunately, we currently lack the time and the historical sources to deeper study this theme, but we continue to work in it. Many greetings from Germany ...
P.S.: Do you have thoughts on the subfamily groups of the Wanonwakteninan?
P.S.: Grigoryev, welcome to the small circle of fans of the Early Lakota history and their family structures!
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Post by kingsleybray on Nov 27, 2014 18:38:14 GMT -5
The last of the three maximal bands of the Miniconjou c. 1800 was the Wanonwakteninan, a name which means to kill accidentally, without intending. The band was also known as the Broken Arrow, from one of the sub-bands, with the soundalike Lakota name Wanhinwega (lit. to break an arrow with the foot - a reference to the arrow used in swearing veracity to a a maiden's virginity or woman's fidelity). The Broken Arrow group may be doubly significant, because according to Cheyenne River historian Bronco LeBeau, the Broken Arrow and Gartersnake Earring bands were the two oldest Miniconjou bands. The Two Kettle were still another sub-band, which divided from the parent band about the year 1840 and created an autonomous tribal division or oyate.
In 1800 the band numbered about 650 people, approximately 65 lodges and ten tiyoshpaye. Their principal leaders included itanchan No Heart and Shirt Wearer Two Lance (father of the Four Bears line of Two Kettle chiefs). They should break down something like this. (TK) indicates a tiyoshpaye or family that aligned with the Two Kettles after 1840.
1. Wanonwakteninan proper - 2 tiyoshpaye, 1 (TK) 2. Oiglapta, Eat Everything Up (TK - Four Bears) 3. Wanhinwega, Broken Arrow 4. Shunka-yuteshni, Eat No Dogs - 2 tiyoshpaye, No Heart and (TK) Long Mandan 5. Nige tanka, Big Belly - 2 tiyoshpaye, 1 (TK) 6. Mawahkota (TK) 7. Keze Shicha, Bad Barbs - to Sichangu after 1832
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Post by grigoryev on Nov 28, 2014 11:43:21 GMT -5
In accordance with the "Teton Sioux Population History, 1655-1881" taking the number of Miniconjou in 1805 about 200 lodges, we find that Wanonwakteninan is only about 45 lodges and 450 people in them. Taking into account the data on the Two Kettles, the composition of the group Broken Arrow will be something like this:
Wanonwakteninan
A. Wannawegha broken arrow
• Wannawegha proper, No Heart family • Sunkayutesni, Don’t Eat Dogs, Long Mandan family, but Long Mandan, Born 1804, was Sihasapa • Wanuwaktenula, Killed by Accident, Swift Bird family • Oohenunpa, Two Boilings, Two Lance family • Kheze, Fish Hook Barb
At Josephine Waggoner's eupominayutsya Two Kettles following groups: Oiglapta, Take All That Is Left Itazipcho sica, Bad Bows Thahuhayuta, Eat Hide Scrapings Chantewanica, No Heart Mnisala, Red Water Takhchapa, deer head Chincakize, Apache [Buechel] Chanhahake, Vertebra/Buffalo Hump Lejagadatcah, Inyan ha oin, Musselshell Earrings, Spotted Elk's band,
But also meets the following name Spotted Elk's band – Hehepiya, Foot of the Hills.
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Post by grigoryev on Nov 28, 2014 11:49:49 GMT -5
mentioned groups not only Two Kettles and Miniconjou
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Post by kingsleybray on Nov 28, 2014 11:51:50 GMT -5
I dont think we need to reduce the number of Wanonwakteninan, grigoryev. What seems to happen between 1795 and 1804 is a decline in the number of the Taku-hkpaya band. Truteau in 1795 assigns them 80 "cabanes", i.e. lodges/tipis. However Tabeau in 1803-04 grades them as the second of the three bands. Since he seems to grade by size (cf. his Brule and Arikara breakdowns) this implies a couple of hundred people less than in Truteau's day. I think this might be the Red-Topped Tipi band moving to the Sichangu to take up trading advantages.
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Post by grigoryev on Nov 28, 2014 13:32:22 GMT -5
It turned out that the group Big Belly has two maximal bands of the Miniconjou: Wanonwakteninan and Taku-hkpa-I-Wakpokiyan?
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Post by grigoryev on Nov 29, 2014 16:20:35 GMT -5
Changes in period 1805-1825: Population in 1825 is estimated at 2200 (Gen. H. Atkinson report), representing a 10% increase on 1804 reconstruction. Since the norm for all Tetons is approximately 17.5% growth across 1804-1825 (see K. M. Bray, ‘Teton Sioux Population History, 1655-1881’, Nebraska History, 75: 2, p. 174, Table 3), this suggests as much as 150 people net loss, i.e. joining the other Lakota division
Maximal band, or oshpaye the Taku-hkpa-ya, assigned them 65 lodges, approximately 650 people:
A. Wakpokiyan Flies Along the Creek • Wakpokiyan proper One Horn family: from Santee 1745? • Hunkapi, or “Grandmother Band” (from Hohwozhu) Lame Deer family • Shikshichela from Santee 1745? • Big Belly from intermarriage with Two Kettles?
B. Wagleza-owin Gartersnake Earring • Wagleza-owin proper Little Crow family • From Hohwozhu Humpback family • Another tiyoshpaye? Ista-caniye?
C. Oyuhpe or Taku-hkpa-ya from Oglala 1767 • Oyuhpe • Cut Testicles • Wakan
Maximal band, or oshpaye, the Miniconjou proper. In c. 1825 I think they number about 85 lodges, 850 people, about 10 or 12 tiyoshpaye (or more?):
A. Unkche-yuta, Dung Eaters. Corn Man (father of Crazy Horse's stepmothers) was the itanchan by 1830s
1. Unkche-yuta proper. 2. Maga-yuha, field owner 3. Maka-mignake (associated after c. 1850 with White Hollow Horns-Little Bear)
B. Glaglahecha, Slovenly. Associated with Swan dynasty from c. 1740 forward. 4. Glaglahecha proper. 5. Black-Topped Tipis 6. Swan 7. Tahuka (Buffalo Hide) - derived from core Hohwozhu band?
C. Inyanha-owin, Musselshell Earrings. 8. Pte San Hunka tiyoshpaye (Joseph White Bull belongs to dynastic family) 9. Feather Earrings tiyoshpaye 10. Fire Thunder tiyoshpaye
Maximal band, or oshpaye, Wanonwakteninan In 1825 the band numbered about 750 people, approximately 75 lodges and ten tiyoshpaye. Since the description of the Two Kettles says that Broken Arrow consisted of three divisions - Broken Arrow, Do not Eat Dogs and Two Kettles, presumably division is as follows:
A. Oohenunpa 1. Wanonwakteninan 2. Oiglapta, Eat Everything Up, Four Bears family 3. Shunka-yuteshni, Eat No Dogs Long Mandan family 4. Nige tanka, Big Belly 5. Mawahkota
Note. Divisions B and C requires clarification. B. Wanonwakteninan proper (This is my interpretation) 1. Wanonwakteninan 2. Wanhinwega, Broken Arrow 3. Keze Shicha, Bad Barbs - to Sichangu after 1832
С. Shunka-yuteshni, Eat No Dogs (This is my interpretation) 1. Shunka-yuteshni, Eat No Dogs - tiyoshpaye No Heart 2. Nige tanka, Big Belly
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Post by grigoryev on Dec 25, 2014 15:41:32 GMT -5
Hello Kingsley What changed the structure of the tribe minnekonzhu after 1840? From the disappeared:
Keze Shicha, Bad Barbs - to Sichangu after 1832
Separated in Oohenunpa 1. Wanonwakteninan 2. Oiglapta, Eat Everything Up, Four Bears family 3. Shunka-yuteshni, Eat No Dogs Long Mandan family 4. Nige tanka, Big Belly 5. Mawahkota
Out In to the Oglala Oyuhpe or Taku-hkpa-I • Oyuhpe • Cut Testicles • Wakan
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dado
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by dado on Feb 7, 2015 1:05:31 GMT -5
We note: To illuminate the mixing of Cheyenne with early Tetons, following tradition should be considered:
We quote from "People often he Sacred Mountain"; Volume I, page 624ff
“Another tradition, recorded among the Southern Cheyennes, states that a girl captured from the Owu’queo, asmall Sioun tribe living on the west bank of the Missouri, first taught the People about the forty-four Chiefs governing her own tribe. Then the Cheyennes adopted this system as their own. James Mooney estimated the date of this adoption as being about 1750, soon after the Cheyenne crossing of the Missouri River.”
Next: Battiste Good’s winter count entry for 1750-51 („Killed-two-white-buffalo-cows“), may recall the seating of a cohort of Honoured Men among the Teton.
Perhaps there is a connection between Owu'queo and Hohwozhu (Miniconjou Sans Arc elements)?
Exciting is, the Assiniboine tribe not know such a system of government. It is also noteworthy that the number “four” for the Tetons plays an important role (four Honoured Men, four counselors -> wakichunze). Based on the Cheyenne: For each of the 10 bands four Honoured Men and four additional men as counselors?
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Post by cinemo on Feb 7, 2015 7:15:11 GMT -5
TRADITIONAL CHEYENNE GOVERNANCE
In the contemporary literature regarding Cheyenne government, there are three primary theories of the organization of the Forty – Four Chief structure.
The first of these theories attributes the vast organizational structure of the Forty - Four Chiefs (Chief Society) to the work of a woman who was captured by a neighboring tribe. Another theory suggests Sweet Medicine received the government structure and the Sacred Arrows from the Holy People (Ma‟heono). The last of the theories is a story about young children that were initially deserted by the tribe but survived and were taught by the animals about the necessity of leadership. When the children reunited with the tribe, they organized Forty - Four Chiefs.
Given that there are three different theories, the origin of Cheyenne governance is controversial. Also, there is no external evidence to support the beginning of the Forty - Four Chiefs of the Cheyenne.
While the migration legends of the Cheyenne can be substantiated by historical and archeological fact, the origins of the chiefs enjoy no such buttressing. They remain pure mythology.
George Bird Grinnell, an author and ethnologist, recorded the oldest accounts through interviews at the turn of the nineteenth century. These accounts confirm the theory of the young children being taught by animals. The children in turn brought the government structure they learned from the animals to the Cheyenne. Other authors doubt the notion of the captured woman because no evidence exists of similar governing structures by other tribes.
However, many oral history accounts substantiate Sweet Medicine as the author of the Chief Society organization.
cinemo
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