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Post by kayitah on Dec 14, 2011 4:45:43 GMT -5
Tiswin, my main point is not that the Chiricahua were cleaner than white people, please read with a bit more care (and if you quote me, please do it correctly, for I said average white people, not all). My point is, that Apache people, in times of peace and tranquility, were, like most Native people, clean and healthy people. They knew very few, if any, deseases associated with sanitation problems, obviously because they moved camp regularly (unlike white people) Also, personal cleanliness was, in my opinion, part of a cultural heritage, see for example the crucial element of bathing in the coming of age ceremony. To me, your assumption that all people (Apaches, whites and Mexicans) lived in the dirt back then seems a bit too simpel. Like I mentioned before, Tiswin, I also could find little direct references (or evidence as you call it), but history is not an exact science, but interpretation. From my posts on these boards you can see that I always choose my words carefully, my ideas and thoughts are based on many years of reading countless sources ( An Apache life way, Survival of the Spirit, Bourke's booksand others for this issue), personal observation and learning from other people. Your assumption that I fantasize the Chiricahua into Holy Smokes Smell Good People is ridiculous and, in fact, insulting. Next time, I advise you to pick your words less carelessly, for I don't like the tone of your music. You are right anyway due to in europe the plaque spread rats and such so sources read european history. Yucca, catus, herba buena(I only know it in spanish) and as has been stated in good times we had time but as we were hunted by the mexicans then anglos for our hair, well some do understand while living in the mountains or the black range and the gila a slight more cleaner than 'living in dirt' or INDE are/were Mountain types IE sierra madre. Laa'de'ste Thank you so much for your contribution, Jasper. I haven't had the opportunity to welcome you here so I'd like to do it now - a warm welcome from my side. Please excuse my curiosity, but are you from the Kanseah family? I just had to think of Jasper Kanseah when I read your name, so that's why I'm asking.
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Post by jasper4 on Dec 14, 2011 15:21:20 GMT -5
Jasper is a stone and my Granpa called me that when I was young, thus a term of endearment. Jasper Kanseah was the young Mescalero who rode with 'he who yawns' I have met Berle of the Mescalero rez and no I live in northern NM. enrolled Ft Sill member, or my peeps were the ones who didnt go to NM in 1913, rather got 1 more yr of POW. Respectfully I give no family names due to my Elders are all gone and I am Traditional with saying names of those who have gone ahead of Me. Laa'de'ste Jasper
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Post by dT on May 25, 2014 22:56:42 GMT -5
it would be interesting to know more about which plants and roots were used by the Chiricahua's for hygiene and cleanliness. I'm sure they must have had a system worked out. For the Chiricahuas it was especially a challenge when they were running long distances every day - which must have exposed their bodies to more sweat and dirt. My guess is that they probably had some "quick solution" which involved wiping off their bodies with the leaves of a certain plant - but I don't know which one. I'm sure that when they finally reached a pond or a stream, the opportunity to wash with fresh water must have been very welcome. These are all very natural human tendencies. The same thing happened to me when I used to backpack for many miles in the High Sierras - it was great to find a running stream and have a means to clean up.
Since the Chirichaus had strong blood lines, and some of their people lived well into their 80's, 90's or 100's, it is pretty clear that they must have been free of common diseases. I don't think that common problems related to unsanitary conditions would have affected them too much. Other health issues, like contagious diseases, were a different story.
dT
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Post by kayitah on May 26, 2014 17:10:22 GMT -5
Your all complete >deleted<. Seriously, what's wrong with you?!! Don't post here anymore if you're not able to act respectful.
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Post by dT on May 28, 2014 9:06:02 GMT -5
agree with that feedback Kayitah. "azz" ... don't bother sticking around here if you cant be polite.
dT
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Post by dT on May 28, 2014 9:09:34 GMT -5
BTW Kayitah ... my issue with traditional Chiricahua practices goes in a different direction. think about about many miles those guys were RUNNING each day. It was huge distances. The old Chiricahuas were ultra-marathon runners. So my basic issue is this ... how could they have possibly replaced all the electrolytes that their bodies needed? I just have no idea how they maintained essential levels of sodium and potassium in their bodies, while running in the dry AZ heat. that's amazing to me. I wish we knew more about these things ... I kinda suspect we will never find out. I DO believe they had special tricks for both hygiene and water/electrolytes.
all the best, dT
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besh
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by besh on Jun 14, 2014 18:38:02 GMT -5
Not quite what you're asking but my Mohawk Grandfather used to make "toothbrushes" w/ a green twig about 1/4" diameter. He sharpened one end to use as a toothpick & pounded the last 1/2" or so of the other end to use as a brush. Black birch works thee best & leaves your mouth w/ a fresh taste but desert willow works pretty well also. I imagine Apache's had a similar method.
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Post by dT on Jun 14, 2014 18:56:30 GMT -5
besh ... pretty sure you are right. thanks for the tip on desert willow. I bet the Nde also had another plant that they used to rub the leaves on their bodies for hygiene purposes.
when I go to Kenya, the Maasai people do the same thing. there is one particular bush they use for cutting small twigs and using them for toothbrushes. it is a common and popular way to clean teeth and gums.
cheers, Pete (dT)
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Post by chicheman on Jul 21, 2014 16:00:23 GMT -5
Didn´t find out about Nde method, but found some mention about Delaware mouthwash - they took the little ball of the blackjack tree, boiled it and used it for a mouthwash. (Turtle Tales:Oral Traditions of the Western Delaware Tribe of Western Oklahoma, Diane K. Hale, Editor) The Nde sure had something similar I think.
chicheman
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