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Post by kayitah on Jun 23, 2010 20:16:41 GMT -5
A Chiricahua named Be-da-zis-shu / Be-da-te-sha (Yellow Coyote), called Tom Chiricahua by white Americans, remains one of the most obscure figures in 1880s Chiricahua history. He has at times been confused with the prominent scout, Dutchy, whose Chiricahua name was My-klitz-so, or the Fox. Tom died on Aug. 17, 1928 and was buried at the Mescalero Cemetery, New Mexico. Dutchy was killed in a tragic incident in 1893. Does anyone have additional information on either one? All I know is that Tom enlisted as a scout in 85/86 during the Geronimo Campaign. Dutchy served in the Army from 1880 to 89 and was another mysterious person. While Britton Davis spoke highly of him, others blamed some very bad things on him - there wasn't any evidence for most of them, though. Here are some images of both men: Attachments:
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Post by kayitah on Jun 23, 2010 20:18:50 GMT -5
Dutchy Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Jun 24, 2010 9:11:13 GMT -5
IMHO #1 and #4 is a different men
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Post by perico on Jun 25, 2010 12:57:10 GMT -5
A Chiricahua named Be-da-zis-shu / Be-da-te-sha (Yellow Coyote), called Tom Chiricahua by white Americans, remains one of the most obscure figures in 1880s Chiricahua history. He has at times been confused with the prominent scout, Dutchy, whose Chiricahua name was My-klitz-so, or the Fox. Tom died on Aug. 17, 1928 and was buried at the Mescalero Cemetery, New Mexico. Dutchy was killed in a tragic incident in 1893. Does anyone have additional information on either one? All I know is that Tom enlisted as a scout in 85/86 during the Geronimo Campaign. Dutchy served in the Army from 1880 to 89 and was another mysterious person. While Britton Davis spoke highly of him, others blamed some very bad things of him - there wasn't any evidence for most of them, though. Here are some images of both men: I never made that match in identifications, good work!
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Post by perico on Jun 25, 2010 12:59:02 GMT -5
IMHO #1 and #4 is a different men I agree.
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Post by kayitah on Jun 25, 2010 13:30:21 GMT -5
Hmm I think Perico and Naiches are right in that no. 1 and no. 4 are different individuals - even though both are identified as Dutchy (Dutch, Dutchie).
Could the man on the right be Chiricahua Tom (as a very old man known as Blind Tom)? I don't have this image in higher resolution, so it's hard to tell... What about the other two pics? The man is variously identified as Dutchy, Ba-keitz-ogie (the Yellow Coyote) and Dead Shot (which is highly unlikely as he was executed in 1881, while the image is thought to be made in 1884).
Also, Dutchy is described as rather short and stocky. Tom was a very tall man, as is clearly visible in an group photographs.
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Post by perico on Jun 25, 2010 14:46:21 GMT -5
Blind Tom is a different person completely. Do you know of any other pictures that Chiricahua Tom is identified. I dont have any more information on him than you do other than at one time he was married to Naithlotonz, a half sister of Naiche.
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Post by kayitah on Jun 25, 2010 16:49:09 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing things up, Perico. I really thought that Chiricahua Tom and Blind Tom were one and the same person. Unfortunately, I don't know much more about Be-da-zis-shu, the "Yellow Coyote". He was married to a woman name Co-seh, with whom he had a very beautiful daughter known as Mattie Tom. A man named "Bayda diz uh/Be da zis shoo" enlisted as a scout in Sept. '85/Apr. '86, respectively, according to the Arizona Scouts Enlistment Roll. following image, from left to right, sitting: Perico, John Loco, Naiché, Yahnozha left to right, standing: Frank Mangus, Sam Haozous, Chiricahua Tom, Leonard Kanesewah picture taken 1898, by Frank Rinehart Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Jun 25, 2010 16:59:46 GMT -5
I see group photo with Blind Tom in Eve Ball In the days of Victorio,p.84 (sorry, not have scan). In Betzinez on p.167 in list of the village's chiefs at Fort Sill: Chiricahua Tom, Scout - Village a mile west of Loco's village.
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Post by kayitah on Jun 25, 2010 17:05:47 GMT -5
are you referring to this photo, Naiches? Blind Tom is the tall man with white hair in the centre of the image... Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Jun 25, 2010 17:56:52 GMT -5
are referring to this photo, Naiches? Blind Tom is the tall man with white hair in the centre of the image... Yes! But this information failure about this man. If he went to Washington and headed village, about him should be a lot of information.
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Post by jeroen on Jun 26, 2010 2:18:40 GMT -5
I have the man left identified as Dutchy (indeed rather short and stocky): and a close up of an alternative image , taken the same day: In my opinion, this man does not resemble any of the men above.
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Post by jeroen on Jun 26, 2010 2:23:53 GMT -5
I have seen this man identified as Naiche on several sites (probably copying from eachother), which is obviously incorrect, and also as Tom Chiricahua. Are there any images of Cochise's daughters (Naiche's half sisters)?
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Post by kayitah on Jun 26, 2010 3:16:59 GMT -5
Thank you for posting the pics of Dutchy, Jeroen. To me, the following images show one and the same person: Attachments:
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Post by kayitah on Jun 26, 2010 3:17:50 GMT -5
Bridget and Susan, half-sisters of Naiché... hmm are they daughters of Nalikadeya, Cochise's youngest wife? Attachments:
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