LaDeane: Do you have the names of Eagle Elk's siblings ?
According to Eagle Elk in Neihardt's interview in 1944: "I had three older sisters, an older brother and a younger brother. The older brother was killed in a war." [Richard Hardorff, The Death of Crazy Horse - A Tragic Episode in Lakota History, Bison Books, 2001, page 152]
Out of 5 siblings of Eagle Elk from Eagle Elk's quote in the reply above, LaDeane Miller has information about 3 of them . That is 2 older sisters + 1 younger brother: 1. Red Day (b.1824) 2. Long Woman (b.1836) 3. Looking Horse (b.1845)
These 5 siblings had the same grandparents as Crazy Horse 3. Their maternal grandparents were Crazy Horse's paternal grandparents, i.e. the couple Makes the Song (Crazy Horse 1) and Red Kettle. Who were parents of Pretty Feather Woman and Worm (Waglúla) (Crazy Horse 2) .
Long Woman married the Oglála Lakȟóta Pawnee Killer . Pawnee Killer has always attracted my attention. So it is interesting to see a link between Crazy Horse and Pawnee Killer. Pawnee Killer and assuming also Long Woman (Crazy Horse's aunt) were with Crazy Horse during at least the winter 1876-1877, because Pawnee Killer's name is on the Crazy Horse's "surrender" ledger from 1877 . Later I would like to write in a new thread what I have gathered about Pawnee Killer from various sources.
Looking Horse was the youngest of Eagle Elk's siblings . Looking Horse was married to Yellow Woman and Blue Cloud [1, 2]. I think this Looking Horse - an Oyuhpe Oglála Lakȟóta & Crazy Horse's uncle - was the member of that name in Crazy Horse's Last Born Child (Hoksi Hakakta) warrior society. At least, Looking Horse was a last born boy of his family (but not his older brother Eagle Elk who was also a member of Hoksi Hakakta).
In his Crazy Horse's book, Kingsley Bray proposed that the member of Crazy Horse's Hoksi Hakakta with the name Looking Horse was a Mnikhowozu [3, 4] who was related to the Mnikhowozu Roman Nose [3, 5]. From a footnote in Bray's book:  "He may have been the Looking Horse living as one of five unmarried men in Roman Nose's Miniconjou lodge at the time of the June-July census (see Spotted Tail Agency 1877 census, 46) and thus one of Roman Nose's "sons"."
I think the unmarried Looking Horse listed in Roman Nose's Mnikhowozu lodge could have been a younger Looking Horse. For example, Oglála Lakȟóta Looking Horse (b.1862) who married Woman (b.1863) (Yellow Wolf's daughter) . This younger Looking Horse would have been 15 years old in 1877 and most likely unmarried in 1877. Looking Horse and Woman had their first child in 1881, named Stands in Middle .
The listed unmarried Looking Horse in Roman Nose's lodge could not have been Eagle Elk's brother Looking Horse because: 1. In 1877, Looking Horse was 32 years old and therefore not likely to be unmarried. 2. In 1877, Looking Horse already had 2 daughters with his wife Blue Cloud; Hawk Woman (b.1872) and Holy (b.1877) and therefore most likely not unmarried in 1877 and most likely married in 1872 or earlier.
Again, I think Eagle Elk's younger brother Looking Horse was the member of that name in Crazy Horse's Last Born Child (Hoksi Hakakta) warrior society.
References: 1. LaDeane Miller, Families of Pine Ridge (on a CD), Descendants of Crazy Horse, Pretty Feather Woman,. 2. LaDeane Miller, Families of Pine Ridge (on a CD), Descendants of Crazy Horse, Looking Horse. 3. Kingsley Bray, Crazy Horse - A Lakota Life, University of Oklahoma Press, 2006, page 178. 4. Kingsley Bray, Crazy Horse - A Lakota Life, University of Oklahoma Press, 2006, page 363. 5. Kingsley Bray, Crazy Horse - A Lakota Life, University of Oklahoma Press, 2006, page 466, fn.17. 6. LaDeane Miller, Families of Pine Ridge (on a CD), Descendants of Red Elk, Woman.
Post by ftpeckpabaksa on Mar 30, 2012 0:17:22 GMT -5
Hello. I just wanted to get some insight here. i got an e-mail from a friend. Who was told of a family tree. i will give it here. i wanted to know if anyone thinks or knows whether this has a bit of validity to it.
Runs After Enemy married to White Water Woman. Together they had...... Na ke hi hi na in (Big Woman) who was a full sister to Worm (e-mail says Crazy Horse's father)
Na ke hi hi na in was a Minneconjou who married a Hunkpapa...Owl Bull
Together they had Black Coyote and Dog Skin Necklace and Looking Thunder and Long Horn AND.....a daughter also named....Big Woman. These individuals..the males all died at Wounded Knee with their first cousin Chief Big Foot. The only one that survived was the Younger Big Woman.......who married the Hunkpapa Chief Black Moon when she was 19. However, she divorced him and re-married.
ftpeckpabaksa, this is very interesting and explains several things.
Yes, Big Woman (Na ke hi hi na in/Older Big Woman/Big Woman 1) was related to Worm in Lakota terms. But not in non-Lakota terms/biological terms.
The relation of the Mnikhowozu (Miniconju) Big Woman to Worm came through his marriage to daughters of the Mnikhowozu chief Corn Man and Iron Between Eyes.
The father of Big Woman , Runs After Enemy , had a sister  who married the Mnikhowozu Corn Man .
The daughters of the siblings: a) Runs After Enemy (husband to White Water Woman) and b) Runs After Enemy's sister (Corn Man's wife) would have called each other sisters due to Lakota's customs (although they were not biological sisters).
That is: a) Big Woman (daughter of Runs After Enemy)  and b) Iron Between Horns + Kills Enemy + Red Leggings (daughters of Runs After Enemy's sister and Corn Man)  would have called each other sisters.
Following the death of Runs After Enemy's sister = Corn Man's wife, in a Crow attack on Corn Man's camp in 1844 . Worm married daughters of Corn Man and Runs After Enemy's sisters . As explained above, these daughters were "sisters" to Big Woman. So Big Woman was Worm's "sister-in-law".
Clown family says that one of Corn Man´s wives was killed in the Crow attack in 1844  and her name was Iron Between Eyes . Clown family does not mention a death of another wife of Corn Man in this Crow attack in 1844 . So most likely the name of Runs After Enemy's sister was Iron Between Eyes.
In reply #32 above, are 3 hints to a family connection between Big Woman and Crazy Horse 3. Through Crazy Horse's 3 mother Rattling Blanket Woman, who was related to Hump, Lone Horn and Big Foot [3, 6]:
1. It was written that the Mnikhowozu chief Big Foot was Dog Skin Necklace's "first cousin" . (for an non-English speaking person; what exactly does "first cousin" means ? Especially in this case)
2. One of the Mnikhowozu Big Woman's sons was named Dog Skin Necklace [1, 4]. Dog Skin Necklace is the same name as was given as a name for father of the Mnikhowozu Hump in Walter Camps interviews . Which could indicate a family connection between Big Woman and Hump.
3. Big Woman and at least part of her family was with Big Foot at Wounded Knee [1, 4]. Given the preference of close relatives to stay together, indicates a family connection between Big Woman and Big Foot. At least 2 of Big Woman's sons were killed in the Wounded Knee Massacre, i.e. Dog Skin Necklace & Black Coyote [1, 4] and perhaps also Looking Thunder & Long Horn  and perhaps also her husband Owl Bull . It was Big Woman's son Black Coyote who didn't want to give up his riffle , which the U.S. Army soldiers were not able to handle and therefore the Wounded Knee massacre started.
It would be interesting to know if and how Big Woman and her sons were related to Big Foot, Lone Horn, Hump, Rattling Blanket Woman.
Post by ftpeckpabaksa on Mar 31, 2012 18:59:55 GMT -5
thanks for the reply. I've been curious bout it. The e-mail I have, states that the son...Black Coyote. Was the individual who was reported to have been deaf/mute, however, that was not the case. he wasn't...and he was a Akitcita....and the rifle he fired was kept by the family. And, that the Younger Big Woman.....enrolled here at Fort Peck. I think what had happened in the e-mail I received was, that the name Big Woman.....I don't understand the spelling given. But, its like the name Cekpawin...or Chaske...or Winona..or any other name. Not only one Dakota, Lakota or Nakota had any one name at one time. The individual who supplied the e-mail......descend's from a woman named Big Woman...but...it was spelt different however, at the time the Big Woman that was referred to was identfiied as a Ihanktowanna (Yanktonai) on the Fort Peck census. I went through the e-mails again and the census listing for Fort Peck. The year of her birth....and probate records show that. The Big Woman referred to in my post was not the other Big Woman...but. Due to the name being similiar it was an attempt to be inclusive of all or any female named Big Woman.
The Lakȟóta name of Older Big Woman = Big Woman 1 is a difficult one. The closest I get to understand it, is if we divide the name into 4 parts: Nake - hihi - na - in
The last part of the name (in) is easy and is the Lakȟóta word wiŋ which is a female name ending and represents the Woman part of the name. So the rest of the name is refering to something big. I am not sure if it is referring to a body size, neither tall nor thick. Because then we would expect to see the words like; tȟáŋka which means large or big and čhépA which means to be fat.
So perhaps it is refering to an old, respectful and commanding female leader or a chief, based on: a) the part (Nake) is perhaps the Lakȟóta word načá which means chief or leader. b) the part (hihi) is perhaps the Lakȟóta word ȟiŋȟíŋ which means to be deeply wrinkled c) the part (na) is perhaps the Lakȟóta "word" na which indicates a command spoken by a woman.
As you know, it can sometimes be difficult to translate words and names. Does anyone have a better idea or a knowledge of what the Lakȟóta name for Older Big Woman means ?
It would be interesting to see the available birth and death years of the persons mentioned above in reply #32. That is the couple Runs After Enemy and White Water Woman and their descendants. For example Younger Big Woman = Big Woman 2 and her children.
It was said that Younger Big Woman married the Hunkpapa Black Moon. So I assume it excludes any confusion to the Mnikhowozu Black Moon. Is that correct ? See the following discussion by Ephriam Dickson about the Mnikhowozu Black Moon: american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/BlackMoon-Miniconjou.htm Was there any family connection between the Hunkpapa Black Moon and the Mnikhowozu Black Moon ? Perhaps through the Hunkpapa Owl Bull (aka. Bull Owl = husband to Older Big Woman) and the Hunkpapa Black Moon ?
It was said that Younger Big Woman divorced Black Moon and remarried. Is it known when this divorce happened ? Is it known to whom Younger Big Woman remarried to ? Did she have any children with her second husband ?
Is it known if the sons of Older Big Woman (Dog Skin Necklace, Black Coyote, Looking Thunder, Long Horn) had wives and children ?
Is anything more known about the couple Runs After Enemy and White Water Woman (i.e. parents of Older Big Woman) ? For example, what was their family and band background ? Did they have another children than Older Big Woman ?
Reply #32 Black Coyote was a Lakota Sioux who refused to give up his weapon at the battle of Wounded Knee and is believed to have unintentionally triggered the terrible massacre.
In an account from an Indian, Turning Hawk, who was present at the massacre and was sympathetic to the U.S. Government, claimed that Black Coyote was "a crazy man, a young man of very bad influence, and in fact a nobody." (New York Times, 12 February 1891 "Indians Tell Their Story" - retold in 1975
Another account from 1LT James D. Mann detailed the massacre, and the following unattributed supplement was added to the journal after his death (Mann died two weeks following the Wounded Knee Massacre of wounds he obtained at the Drexel Mission skirmish):
"... Mann failed to mention ...Black Coyote, a youth who was later recalled by his own people as a troublemaker. He stood waving his rifle, declaring that he had given money for it and no one was going to take it unless he was paid...."
The "Into the West" miniseries suggests that Black Coyote was deaf. This claim was supported in the Native American history "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" by Dee Brown, who appears to be quoting an eyewitness account by survivor Dewey Beard.
The book "Wind on the Buffalo Grass: The Indian's Own Account of the Battle at the Little Big Horn River, & the Death of Their Life on the Plains" by Leslie Tillett states that "One Indian's gun was fired by accident. I heard that later it belonged to Sitting Bull's deaf-mute son, who couldn't hear the order to disarm. After that shot, the soldiers let loose with everything they had." This account given by Dewey Beard LaDeane
Must be this Owl Bull also married Big Woman? Descendants of Owl Bull (---) and Cedar Woman (---)
1. Owl Bull1 (---), born 1840 in Oglala Sioux Nation. He married Cedar Woman ((---)) (---), born 1848 in Oglala Sioux Nation; died 18 May 1925 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota.
Notes for Owl Bull (---) Jun 1886 Pine Ridge pg 141 1887 Pine Ridge pg 143 30 Jun 1888 Pine Ridge pg 478 1 Jul 1890 Pine Ridge pg 217 1 Jul 1892 Pine Ridge pg 335 1893 Pine Ridge pg 384 1 Jul 1894 Pine Ridge pg 108 30 Jun 1895 Pine Ridge pg 498 30 Jun 1896 Pine Ridge pg 141 30 Jun 1897 Pine Ridge pg 330 30 Jun 1898 Pine Ridge pg 470 30 Jun 1899 Pine Ridge pg 614 1910 census Pass Creek pg 76b married 36 yrs parents b in S Dakota Still alive in 1911-Custer in '76 interview with Black Bear 7/18/1911
Notes for Cedar Woman (---) Jun 1886 Pine Ridge pg 141 1887 Pine Ridge pg 143 30 Jun 1888 Pine Ridge pg 478 1 Jul 1890 Pine Ridge pg 217 30 Jun 1892 Pine Ridge pg 335 Cedar 1893 Pine Ridge pg 384 1 Jul 1894 Pine Ridge pg 108 30 Jun 1895 Pine Ridge pg 498 Cedar 30 Jun 1896 Pine Ridge pg 141 30 Jun 1897 Pine Ridge pg 330 30 Jun 1898 Pine Ridge pg 470 30 Jun 1899 Pine Ridge pg 614 1910 census Pass Creek pg 76b married 36 yrs parents b in S Dakota
Children of Owl Bull (---) and Cedar Woman (---) were as follows: 2 i Looked At2 (---), born 1886 in Pine Ridge, Shannon, South Dakota. Notes: Jun 1886 Pine Ridge pg 141 1887 Pine Ridge pg 143 Stands Looking 30 Jun 1888 Pine Ridge pg 478 1 Jul 1890 Pine Ridge pg 217 Stands Looking 1 Jul 1892 Pine Ridge pg 335 Looked At 1893 Pine Ridge pg 384 1 Jul 1894 Pine Ridge pg 108 30 Jun 1895 Pine Ridge pg 498 30 Jun 1896 Pine Ridge pg 141 30 Jun 1897 Pine Ridge pg 330 30 Jun 1898 Pine Ridge pg 470 Mabel 30 Jun 1899 Pine Ridge pg 614 LaDeane
Hrienn-my point exactly-these are the only Black Coyote listed in the entire census and old enough to sign the 1868 Treaty Black Coyote Head abt 1818 Male Blackfeet Blood And Piegan Montana Black Coyote Husband abt 1831 Male Cheyenne And Arapahoe (Cheyenne) Oklahoma Black Coyote Husband abt 1848 Male Cheyenne And Arapahoe (Cheyenne) Oklahoma The other names, Dogskin Necklace, Long Horn and Looking Thunder re not listed in any census with those names!! LaDeane
As we have seen examples of again and again, it can be tricky to follow each Lakhota individual due to many names throughout his/her life.
It is well documented that the Hunkpapa council decided to send Gall and Bull Owl to follow Father de Smet to Fort Rice in June 1868. Leading to Gall's and Bull Owl's signature of the Fort Laramie Treaty on behalf of the Hunkpapa Lakhota on July 2, 1868 at Fort Rice. I guess the Hunkpapa signer Bull Owl is the same person as the Hunkpapa Owl Bull, husband to the Mnikhowozu Big Woman, from the discussion above. It is quite possible that Bull Owl's sons (Dog Skin Necklace, Black Coyote, Looking Thunder & Long Horn) followed their father to Fort Rice in June 1868. So they would have been present when the Fort Laramie Treaty was signed by Bull Owl and Gall. But they perhaps did not put their X mark on the paper, but still they could have been present.
Yes, that is correct But stories often tend to change in flavour during time. Often such happens in shorter time than the ca. 150 years we have in this case. I have an understanding of some possible inaccuracy which develops during time.