Post by emilylevine on Feb 25, 2012 18:33:17 GMT -5
Waggoner has an original stereograph. On the back she wrote "Sitting Bull's two wives and mother." I had doubts because any photographer would surely have identified them as such as a selling point of the image, right? But I can't begin to see the faces clearly enough to tell anything.
A famous person 'floating by' at Fort Randall to meet Sitting Bull was the 'Fearless Frogman' Paul Boyton. Water Spirit the Indians called him. Boyton wore an immersion suit (rubber dress) to swim/paddle up and down the great rivers of the world, including the Yellowstone and Missouri. On October 5th 1881 he left Fort Yates and waved goodbye to Rain in the Face, Gaul, Low Dog, Long Soldier, the young chief Flying-By and others. A strange tale of a strange man in a strange world.
"After midnight it was found that mud sucks and snags were so thick as to render further progress in the dark extremely hazardous, so the voyagers landed under a mud cliff and built a camp fire. They slept soundly until sunrise when they were astonished to see a number of Indian women performing their morning toilet at the water's edge. One of them was examining the Baby Mine in bewilderment and when Paul approached them they ran up a path in the side of the bluff and disappeared. He determined to ascertain where they were going and hastening after them, heard a stern "halt." Just ahead of him in the path stood a colored army sentinel. The soldier said they were near Fort Randall, and he was one of the guards over the Camp of Sitting Bull and other Indian prisoners of war, who had surrendered themselves to the United States authorities after the disastrous outbreak that drove them over the border into the British Possessions. Word was sent to the fort of Paul's arrival and a conveyance was dispatched to carry him and his companion to the garrison, where they were warmly received. A steaming breakfast was prepared to which full justice was done, after which, under the guidance of an officer, they visited the hostile camp, situated on a level stretch of ground about one mile distant from the garrison. There were thirty-two tepees, accommodating one hundred and sixty-eight people, forty of whom were males over sixteen years of age and the rest women and children. The tepees were arranged in a circle with a large space in the center, around which braves, squaws and almost nude children squatted or lay in the sunshine. One solitary white man was seen standing in front of a tepee. He was dressed in a dark pair of pantaloons, brown duck overcoat and his head was surmounted by a large, broad brimmed, drab felt hat, with a big dinge in each side of it. The white man proved to be Allison, the government scout and interpreter. It was he who entered the hostile camp the previous year and brought in the main body of the Sioux warriors, led by Crow King. The scout was a medium sized man, compactly and strongly built; a peculiar expression of shrewdness distinguished his face, and his eyes were keen and searching.
It was Allison's special care to look out for Sitting Bull, the famous Uncapapa chief, and after greeting the visitors, he led them into the presence of the dreaded Sioux leader. Whatever may be said of Sitting Bull, he certainly had the appearance of a man born to lead men. He was five feet ten inches tall and weighed probably one hundred and eighty pounds. His face was an unusually intelligent one and his forehead large. He was dignified, though modest, as he invited the travelers into his tepee and seemed to feel keenly his condition as a prisoner. A number of Indians also entered at the request of Sitting Bull, among them his young fighting nephew, Kill-While-Standing, who wore eyeglasses which gave him a student-like appearance. The two wives of the chief shook hands with every one present and exhibited several half naked and very dirty children, heirs of the Bull family. Among them were twins whom the ladies of the garrison had named Kate and Duplicate.
An instance of the wonderful power of Sitting Bull over his people and his remarkable shrewdness in retaining that power, the following scene enacted that evening, will illustrate: Paul and some of the army officers, with the interpreter were seated in the tepee conversing with Sitting Bull, when a deputation of Indians requested an audience with their chief. It appears they had been arguing among themselves about the mysterious manner in which Minnewachatcha floated upon the water without effort, although he appeared to be constituted the same as other men. Not being able to reach a conclusion, they referred the matter to Sitting Bull. The great chief had no doubt been ruminating considerably on the same subject without being able to settle it to his own satisfaction; but he was too shrewd a politician to display the least ignorance of the question. In fact, Bull considered no matter too trivial to use as a means of displaying to his people his own great store of knowledge and he would feign to know all about things of which he was ignorant, frequently claiming to have received his information from the Great Spirit above. So when the question regarding Minnewachatcha, was propounded, he took it as a matter of course that when a thing of importance presented itself, his people must come to him for information. His dignified manner would have done credit to a great statesman. Facing the deputation, with Paul standing at his right, he began a harangue in the Sioux tongue, using gestures that were at once impressive and graceful.
Briefly, his speech as interpreted by Allison, was to the effect that he was a great chief, that the Great Spirit made known to him all things. He knew all about Minnewachatcha, who was good medicine. (Then he would lightly tap Boyton on the shoulder and step back impressively.) In his examination, he had found that Minnewachatcha, though he appeared like other men, was not; because he was possessed of no internal arrangements as other men, hence he could float on the water like an empty can.
The government sometimes issues canned provisions to the Indians. When they extract the contents and throw the can in the water, it floats away, and Bull used that as a simile, knowing they would all understand. The deputation appeared perfectly satisfied with the explanation and went away thoroughly convinced that Boyton was supplied with no interior mechanism in the way of lungs, stomach, etc.
Sitting Bull conceived a strong friendship for Paul and they exchanged gifts, and Minnestema, Bull's daughter, who was really handsome for an Indian girl, looked upon him as second only to her distinguished father in greatness. Paul thought to flatter Minnestema, and through the interpreter, told her that he had heard her praises sung far up the river, that she was the toast at every fort and that the fame of her beauty had even spread to the great cities of the whites. Her copper countenance expressed much pleasure at this; but she dispelled the romance by immediately asking Paul in broken English, if he had any plug chewing tobacco.
The friendship between Paul and Sitting Bull lasted until the latter was killed in the ghost dance excitement during the winter of 1891. When the old chief was on a tour of the east in 1885, his face lighted up with joy when he met Boyton and gave him a cordial welcome.
Paul left Fort Randall, October 20th. After he had encased himself in his rubber dress, the Indians could not be induced to shake hands with him. A little girl put her hand into his and all the chiefs, in admiration of her bravery, exclaimed, "how".
White Dog, Scarlet Thunder, Kill-While-Standing and One Bull were anxious to see the "Water Spirit" float away, but they kept at a respectful distance from Paul as he stood on the slope before slipping into the water.
The afternoon was pleasant and as they glided down on the current followed by the wondering eyes of the soldiers as well as the Indians, Paul and Creelman felt refreshed and vigorous and made good time. Just after dark, they passed the Yankton Indian Agency and were cheered".
According to Ernie LaPointe's 'Sitting Bull His Life And Legacy' they are: Twin Boy, Alice Quimby, Twin Boy, Four Robes and baby girl, Sitting Bull, Margaret Smith, Captain Quimby.
According to Josephine Waggoner's 'Witness' they are: Twin Boy, Bell Quimby, Twin Boy, Four Robes and baby girl, Sitting Bull, Sally Battles, Captain Bentzoni.
Can anyone confirm?
In Jerome A. Greene's 'Fort Randall on the Misouri, 1856-1892 I haven't seen the name Captain Quimby under Appendix A Commanding Officers at Fort Randall, 1856-92. The book also mentions (picture NO. 1) Sitting Bull had 9 wives and that he has one child by each of his first 6 wives. Is it true SB had 9 wives? Frank Goodyear III's article also mentions that "during his lifetime, Sitting Bull had at least five wives".
Paul Boyton mentions (see my previous post) that "the two wives of the chief shook hands with every one present and exhibited several half naked and very dirty children, heirs of the Bull family. Among them were twins whom the ladies of the garrison had named Kate and Duplicate". Did Sitting Bull possibly have twin girls? Ernie only mentions two sets of twin boys but no twin girls. The twins on the picture to me look more like girls than boys, but that's just my impression.
Last Edit: Oct 12, 2014 7:23:49 GMT -5 by waganari
I've noticed many differences between the census list LaDonna provides as proof and Ernie's family tree. Some of the names are different (which I expected), but birth dates and death dates are completely contradicting each other. Take Many Horses for example and her child(ren). Even Sitting Bull himself is all of a sudden born in 1834 instead of the usual given date of 1831. Even his place of birth is steeped in mystery: Grand River, Four Horns Creek (according to Ernie and his grandmother, but ignored by 'experts' who witnessed the birth it seems), or the Red River Métis connection...
I was going through the lists to see who the child on that picture is that shows four generations of the Sitting Bill family: Her Holy Door Woman (Mixed Day), Sitting Bull, Many Horses and the unknown baby. Is it Chasing First Born and is he the same as Chasing A Woman on Ernie's family tree. I've seen several accounts that mention "at least 5 wives", or "9 wives" and "at least 6 children with his first 6 wives". It's very tough trying to date a picture and the persons on it if you don't know which list of birth dates and death dates to trust.
Your given list differs from Ernie's book and LaDonna's latest list. In Ernie's book Seen By Her Nation is 1846-1897. Lodge in Sight is 1875-1898, Runs Away From is 1878-1909, Crowfoot 1873-1890 and Standing Holy is 1876-1927. In Ladonna's latest list: Her Many Horse B.1864 D.1887. When she marries Thomas Fly she is all of a sudden born in 1883, just a few lines further.
Yes, you're right, it is difficult to provide definitive data. The birth years are changing frequently with the census lists. If you follow a person over several years in the census lists, you will get different age indications (i.e. birth years), often. Death years are sometimes only estimated - when the people no longer appear in the following lists. Are they dead? Or just failed to appear for census? While it is good to have accurate data, but here we will always/sometimes remain in the estimation area. With the children, it would be nice to have more information in order to distinguish them from each other (which is sometimes difficult). Lakota define their birth year based on winter counts, which naturally go beyond the turn of the year. Born in the winter XX, but now when 1876 or 1877? Euro-american societies prefer accurate chronological data. But does it really matter whether someone was born in 1876 or 1877? Important to me is that someone has left his footprints or his story on this planet. If we get an accurate data - fine. If not - who cares. That is also the exciting thing about native american history. We often have no written documented data. We have to work Forward on the basis of census lists, newspaper articles, army reports etc. It's still a detective game.
If you do the research on Native people and the census each year you will find a different date because we never followed the years as white people do so all the dates are a best guess. So today we say Sitting Bull was born in between the years of 1831 to 1834, Each census will give you a different date and age. I always tell people if you follow the census you will see the Indian woman are always older than the men some by 20 years, then as the couple gets older she gets younger, When they came in for census the agent would look at the individual and guess their age so i said gee our women must of look wore out when they came in. So if you get your panties in a bunch over age its a white thing.
I'm not getting my braids in a tangle over a discrepancy between different dates at all, LaDonna . Coming from a people whose cultural roots date back to 500 BC, I couldn't care less. Nor am I worried about the Double Horus mystique you've added to your own two different birth dates on your profile and this forum I am merely pointing out the differences and difficulties it sometimes causes when trying to accurately date pictures and label unknown Native persons. Especially the little ones. I don't like to file them away as hoksila or wincicala and forget about them, when there is a chance of finding out their true name. It's called honoring those who no longer walk among us.
I don't think my attention to detail is a white thing. It also marks historians like yourself. It has more to do with being born in Canwapegi Wi under the sixth sign of the Zodiac: Virgo. "Those born under this sign can be picky and critical, but their attention to detail is for a reason: to help others. Virgos, more than any other sign, were born to serve". It's a universal thing, not a white thing.
I was not saying the question was white just the concept of age I am always looking for correct dates on people when doing their genealogy for the tribal people. Its like my grandfather who was born in Pine Ridge and when he was three years old his father died and they moved back to Standing Rock, he was then enrolled on Standing Rock but because their is own birth certificate his only date of birth of his enrollment, so he was always three years younger then is so called date of birth. This seem to be common among tribal people.