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Post by wakiyanpeta on Mar 12, 2013 18:03:21 GMT -5
I know this is an old thread, but I'd like to pull it back up instead of starting a new one. I'm looking for the parents of my great grandpa Reuben FireThunder. No one in the family seems to remember ever hearing about who his parents were. He was married to Pansy Fire Place, and had a number of children, raised in between Allen and Kyle SD. I have some info from my mom and aunts and uncles who were raised by him and Pansy but are their grandkids. The only info I can find on him on the internet is him being mentioned in a couple of books about sundance as he was a Wicasa Wakan, a holy man or medicine man. And he is listed on this page freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p113.htm#i7218 which says his mother was Lillian Fire Thunder, but their birthdates are only 3 years apart... So this can not be accurate. If anyone has any idea, please post on here. Nothing comes up on ancestry, and I've tried talking to family, but nobody remembers hearing anything... My mom who called him Dad growing up says he never talked about his parents.
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Post by cankpeopi on Dec 18, 2015 2:48:59 GMT -5
In my family Tree I have Fire Thunders Father as Fire Thunder also. The elder Fire Thunder's wife is named "Piece of Woman". The younger Fire Thunder marred Cant Enter Door, her parents were Foam and Sits Down.
My fathers mother is Mildred Cuny, daughter of Angelique Fire Thunder and Edward Cuny. And of Course Angelique being the daughter of Fire Thunder and Cant Enter Door.
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Post by kingsleybray on Dec 18, 2015 8:02:10 GMT -5
Thanks cankpeopi, that helps to clarify some speculation. It also strongly suggests that Fire Thunder, the fellow born c. 1849, was the son of the Fire Thunder who was photographed in the 1868 treaty councils.
The way I understand the band histories is that the Fire Thunder family goes back a l-o-o-n-g way as part of the Oyuhpe band. It looks as if the older Fire Thunder mentioned here was born c. 1827, probably into the Oyuhpe. He married or at any rate moved into the Wagluhe band that settled about Ft Laramie in the 1850s. He was one of the Wagluhe band chiefs (itancan) by the 1860s. He moved his immediate following of relatives to Whetstone Agency on the Missouri 1868-70, where they maintained a small camp separate from the main Wagluhe camp. As if underlining their distinction. I wonder if it is the tiyospaye later known as the Wakpamni band.
Most of his children seem to be associated with the Wagluhe and associated bands. But his son and namesake Fire Thunder took a different strategy and was always associated with his ancestral Oyuhpe band and/or with Crazy Horse's Hunkpatila. In other words, a non-treaty strategy. Above someone remarks that a brother of this younger Fire Thunder's wife was Look Twice. This man, born c. 1852-53, belonged (I now understand) to the Makaha tiyospaye, one of the Oyuhpe sub-bands. Makaha originated from the Sans Arc (Itazipcho) division early in the 1800s. So it looks possible that Foam (Imnistan, born c. 1823+), father of Looks Twice, had connections or belonged to Makaha. I suggest he also had some sorts of connections (maternal? .... marital? ...... hunka? ........ you name it ..... ) to the Wablenica band of Sicangu.
Hope this helps
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Post by kingsleybray on Dec 18, 2015 10:46:12 GMT -5
I just checked some of the names cropping up in this thread with a friend at Pine Ridge.
He confirmed that Foam (the father-in-law of Fire Thunder born c. 1849), Owl Eagle and Shoot the Ghost were all related as brothers.
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Post by cankpeopi on Dec 18, 2015 21:52:12 GMT -5
Any knowledge or information on Foams relatives in the Itazipco?
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Post by kingsleybray on Dec 19, 2015 3:33:40 GMT -5
Check the threads on here about Martin Charger, Mary Sarpy, Shoots the Ghost and Pumpkin Hill.
A gentleman from Cheyenne River put up some data showing that Foam was a half-brother to a guy called John Split, who was enrolled at Cheyenne River and possibly allotted. He was one of several husbands of Her Good Ground, the mother of Mary Sarpy and Martin Charger. Maybe you could follow up with the guy who posted - a Swift Bird.
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Post by cankpeopi on Dec 19, 2015 9:56:18 GMT -5
Thanks. wonderful information.
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Post by cankpeopi on Jan 3, 2017 12:04:00 GMT -5
Also, my family tree, the enrollment document at Pine Ridge has Firethunder the elder married to "Piece Of Woman".
I have a question, any leader on as to whether or not Land Owner is a sibling to on elf the Firethunders or an Uncle?
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Post by cankpeopi on Jan 3, 2017 12:05:47 GMT -5
When looking at the census data for Cheyenne River and Pine Ridge for the years 1886 I find Pumpkin Hill Family at Cheyenne River and the "Crazy Horse Jr" family at same time at Pine Ridge. This appears that this cant be the same family, unless I am mistaken on the dates. Any thoughts? anyone.
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