This forum isn't like our Little Big Horn forums, that focus on the conflict between the races.
I think this forum should focus on the Indians, their society and history, and their evolution into becoming "Native Americans." Such study is full of emotion and controversy and agenda quite enough without involving discussing the U.S. Army here. <g>
I will participate in putting a perspective on facts, people, and events from a military point of view, but I don't think it is appropriate here to debate the blame game. I think that would distract from, and sour, the wonderful environment on this forum for studying some great peoples...
Clair
I agree - one of the biggest reasons I come to this site on a daily basis is because it is largely a positive, helpful, enthusiastic place.
There is pain enough. It is true we need to learn from the past, but playing the blame game does not solve our future. I can not undo the mistakes of my ancestors, only promise to learn and improve my own behavior.
hau. Barbara
Thanks, and yes, I'm still working on that, too. <g>
Re: Whitestone Hill Battle/Massacre « Reply #17 on Aug 15, 2009, 7:04pm »
wow I think some research need to be done aout Whitestone 1. Yanktonais NOT Santee were attacked--- mistaken for the wrong indians. 2. The people tried to surrunder but were taken as prisoner of war. 3. Women and children were ran into a ditch were the soldier on each side shot down at them murdering them in the shoot they shot each other. 4. After the massacre they went around and shot all the living that were wounded, they shot 500 dogs, then burn all the food clothing, homes and supplies. 5. the prisoner of war were taken to Crow creek were the soldier raped young girls ages 11 to 25 and threw them away along the river.
Re: Whitestone Hill Battle/Massacre « Reply #18 on Aug 17, 2009, 4:57pm »
Both Susan Bettelyoun and Josephine Waggoner have been quite clear about the number of "war babies" born after the women of their bands were taken prisoner by U.S. army soldiers. I recently received Clair Jacobson's book, Whitestone Hill, through interlibrary loan. Has anyone read it and, if so, what did you think?
Joined: Nov 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 833 Location: Greven, Germany
Re: Whitestone Hill Battle/Massacre « Reply #19 on Sept 4, 2009, 6:28am »
Emily,
I´m glad to have the book by Jacobson, because there isn´t much information about Yanktonai history in books at all. Actually this book joins two articles by the author which were initially published in North Dakota History magazine in 1977 and 1980. The first part (previously published as “A History of the Yanktonai and Hunkpatina Sioux”) tells us about Yanktonai band structure and leadership. The second part is about the Whitestone battle itself.
Most of the Whitestone part is written according to official sources, but it doesn´t conceal the massacre of women and children. However, I wish there will be a more updated book out soon.
There are two accounts from the Indian view in the book. Here´s one:
I hope you will not believe all that is said of „Sully´s Successful Expedition” against the Sioux. I don´t think he aught to brag of it at all, because it was, what no decent man would have done, he pitched into their camp and just slaughtered them, worse a great deal than what Indians did in 1862, he killed very few men and took no hostile ones prisoners… and now he returns saying that we need fear no more, for he has “wiped out all hostile Indians from Dakota.” If he had killed men instead of women & children, then it would have been a success, and worse of it, they had no hostile intention whatever, the Nebraska 2nd pitched into them without orders, while the Iowa 6th were shaking hands with them on one side, they even shot their own men. Sam Brown, 19 year-old interpreter at Crow Creek Reservation, November 1863
The other Indian source is a Sioux pictograph by Takes-the-Shield, who was a participant in the Whitestone battle.
I haven´t got me the Yanktonai articles you and Ephriam recommended, I should do that soon. But I´m just reading “The History of the Fort Peck Assiniboine and Sioux Tribes of the Fort Peck Indian Reservation, Montana, 1800-2000” by David Miller, Dennis Smith, Joseph McGeshick, James Shanley, and Caleb Shields, co-published by the Fort Peck Culture Committee and the Montana Historical Society Press:
But I´m just reading “The History of the Fort Peck Assiniboine and Sioux Tribes of the Fort Peck Indian Reservation, Montana, 1800-2000” by David Miller, Dennis Smith, Joseph McGeshick, James Shanley, and Caleb Shields, co-published by the Fort Peck Culture Committee and the Montana Historical Society Press:
Not much about Whitestone in it, but generally a good overview about Yanktonai history and politics.
Best wishes
Dietmar
Dietmar I got “The History of the Fort Peck Assiniboine and Sioux Tribes of the Fort Peck Indian Reservation, Montana, 1800-2000” through interlibrary loan and was able to get through a lot of it before it had to be returned. It sure seems like a good thing for the the tribes up there to have. Dennis Smith got his doctorate here at the University of Nebraska and I got his dissertation from the library here. I did find some interesting material at the National Archives in Kansas City last month related to a council held by the Yanktonai in August 1880 concerning whether or not the Yanktonai at Standing Rock should or wanted to or didn't want to move to Crow Creek to be with the rest of the tribe. I hope people in this forum can continue to locate and share information on the Yanktonai. And thank you for all your great work.
Re: Whitestone Hill Battle/Massacre « Reply #23 on Nov 9, 2009, 3:29pm »
Hello. Hey i was wondering. Does anyone have a listing of the prisoners taken after Whitestone Hill? where were they taken? where can I find documentation about this anyone know? just wondering is all.
Re: Whitestone Hill Battle/Massacre « Reply #24 on Nov 10, 2009, 4:37pm »
Hello again. Well, I was just reading this site and another message board site about Whitestone Hill. It seems that the site has turned into a place where whitemen can come and play soldiers again, like a mountain man rendevous. however you spell it. Well, I think I posted on the other site but I will after this. I would like to say that I do enjoy coming to this site to post. It is very intersting. I am trying to get a lot of information about my people, the Sioux at Fort Peck put out there..as well as find out more about the history of my family. So I do enjoy this site. Well, first of all...I would like to say that I helped organize and re-word the text at the Killdeer Mountain site. I was given the plaque, the old plaque from the North Dakota State Historical Society. Well when we finished with that site, it was a four year project with a ceremony at the conculsion held by Arvol Looking Horse. Needless, to say, I did invite many people from the different reservations in North, South Dakota, I even made an attempt to reach out to the Minnesota Sioux Tribes to attend. Aside from Mr. Looking Horse, the only other Sioux to attend were the Canadian Sioux. I had many of them invovled in the talks, the actual meetings where the wording was going to be deccided on. In the end we never got everything we wanted but we did get most of the original wording taken off. The site itself, like General Sully said 1,600 tipis...which would make it the largest camp ever...larger than even Little Bighorn. But we did get into heated discussions with members of the NDSHS...but it worked out in the end. Well, after it was done...The NDSHS wanted to move onto Whitestone Hill. I wanted to start on this, but it got to be too much. I was young than, in my early 20's and with work and all. I didnt think we could take on another project like that. But, since reading several posts, and the heated debate on this site about Whitestone Hill. I think it is time to approach the NDSHS about getting this project undeway. Because, well, I think it is just wrong to let people dress up and play soldier in the same place where they killed many Sioux people. We all know that it was wrong, but they don't think it is wrong. Anaologies can be tossed around and all. But, I would not want to do this alone...I think with some intersted people we can do this. It is not a site that is known, talked about like other Sioux sites. So we can get interest, maybe incorpoate it in our schools...let our kids be known, like a working project. I would be intetsted in assisting or helping with this. That was the problem I found out with the Killdeer Mountain project...many of our own.....historians wanted to help..but since they were not promoted..our spoken of first before our project, they never showed up, not even a call to explain why or anything..sad but true. Well, I just think this would be a good idea...kind of like the idea I seen with regards to Sitting Bull, about having a historian type meeting in regards to him. To let people have their say and all. I got this idea from that..thinking it would be great. Because soo many different Sioux Tribes have had so many of their ancestors at that site. Well, someone get back to me and let me know what you think? c_bear_f@yahoo.com this would be a fun project as well i think. I really don't know if the people I worked with in the Killdeer Mountain signage are still there but I have their names and all. Well again, anyone interested??
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