Kingsley: Thanks for a detailed reply as always.
I agree that it is likely that this 90 years old woman in the year 1887 (born 1796-1797) was the wife of Makes the Songs and therefore Crazy Horse's Oglala grandmother.
Crazy Horse's Oglala grandmother almost "has to be" related to the Smoke family !
And more specifically to one of Smoke's wife.
When you consider together the formation of thiyóšpaye (thiyosphaye) in the Lakhota society and family trees information, there is no other choice.
You can rule out all other possibilities.
As can be seen by the following references in the literature, the people in each thiyóšpaye were related:
1. "The tiyospaye, or lodge group, was the basic building block of society. A cluster of
families, related by blood and marriage, the tiyospaye was typically fifty or a hundred people strong."
[K.M. Bray;
Crazy Horse - A Lakota Life, page 7]
2. "Sioux society had its foundation in small,
close-knit family hunting groups." "This group, the core of the Sioux society, was known as the "tiyospe"."
[R.B. Hassrick;
The Sioux, page 2]
3. "According to DeMallie (1976:81), a single Tiyospaye was composed of 5 to 20
related families."
[G. Gibbon;
The Sioux - The Dakota and Lakota Nations, page 247]
4. "Each band, or tiyospaye, was ordinarily comprised of ten or more
bilaterally extended families"
[R.W. Larson;
Red Cloud - The Warrior Statesman of the Lakota Sioux, page 35]
But according to the known combined information about Crazy Horse's and Smoke's family trees, see the following:
1. K.M. Bray;
Crazy Horse - A Lakota Life2. R.G. Hardorff;
The Death of Crazy Horse3. Information on DVDs from the Clown family;
The Authorized Biography of Crazy Horse and His Family from Reel Contact
4. Information from Wendyll Smoke in the thread
amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=239&page=2There is no known link between Crazy Horse's and Smoke's families.
But it is a fact that they lived together and formed the Hunkpatila thiyóšpaye.
Not only did these families form the Hunkpatila thiyóšpaye for many years, but some of these years were heavily strained between war vs. peace attitude regarding the white people and finaly led to a split of the thiyóšpaye.
That these families stayed together for such a long time during difficult times, suggest a close family ties.
So Crazy Horse's Oglala grandmother almost "has to be" related to one of Smoke's wife.
There is no one else in the Crazy Horse's family who could be related to the Smoke family.
Therefore it seems to be almost a question of a confirmation and a bringing up the name of these 2 women.
That is Crazy Horse's Oglala grandmother and a woman in the Smoke family (most likely Smoke's Oglala wife).
To complicate matter even more.
I was thinking about how the Yellow Eagle family and Standing Bull family in the Hunkpatila thiyóšpaye were related to Crazy Horse.
Whether it could be through the Oglala grandmother of Crazy Horse ?
Perhaps to the wife of Yellow Eagle and/or wife of Standing Bull ?
Is it known how Crazy Horse is related to Yellow Eagle and Standing Bull ?
Kingsley: I think it is very likely to be correct what you have been thinking about regarding the connection between Parts of Body (father of Old Smoke) and the daughter of Standing Bull I.
