Post-Wounded Knee photo... again

Granted, it's hard to make out, but I've always thought the man speaking in the centre of the circle is the man with the caped coat and shoulder length hair, theird from the left in the top Cody photo...


Grand council of friendly and hostile Indian chiefs at the Pine Ridge Agency; Kicking Bear speaking

I took them from here: digital.denverlibrary.org/

The images can now be blown up and some are crystal clear - not the one of 'Kicking Bear' addressing the council, however. This is as good as it gets:



Here's another Grabill or Trager or Moreledge photo that claims to show Kicking Bear - but it's High Hawk. The unidentified gentleman holding hands with two Strike is his adopted son, George Crager, who worked with Cody on the 1891-2 Wild West Show tour:



Left to right: J. McDonough (reporter), Good Lance, Big Talk, Frank Grouard, 'Kicking Bear', Two Strike, George Crager, Major Burke, unidentified. That's assuming the other identifications are correct!

Closer:



Edit: Here's a more complete version and the unidentified man on the far right is erroneously labelled Short Bull!!!:



Here's another photo (Trager? Grabill? Moreledge?) that does show Kicking Bear, but he's mislabelled as Big Talk!


Left to right according to what's written on the print:
Good Lance, Big Talk, High Hawk, Two Strike

I believe that this is High Pipe of Rosebud:

An update:

Happy new year and thanks to everyone who answered my question, which as usual leads on to yet more questions

grahamew, sorry, I see from you're reply that we've been through this before already some time back. Must be getting old, the memories failing.

As to the man kneeling in front wearing a hat, I'm still unsure if it is Kicking Bear or not. In some ways it does have a feel of him, and let's face it, we can all look a bit different to the camera if we are in a certain mood, depressed, angry or just plain bored. But, Kicking Bear has such a distinctive face, that I think on balance it's probably not him.

Using the same argument, i.e., angry, bored or just thinking of something else, I think the man to the left of Major Burke is probably Young man afraid not looking like his usual self.

With regards to the marvellous close ups you sent August 16th 2011, { how do You do It, they are perfect? } if you did give the names of the individuals back then, they have been replaced with little blue boes with a ? Back then the man second from the left was identified as Good Lance I think, but has now been i.d as High Pipe. I haven't heard anything about this man, so is there any further information?

grahamew, My last question is one I've bored you with before. Many years back you posted a third photo of Low Dog sitting with others such as Gall, Rain in the Face and Running Antelope, shortly after they came back from Canada. I've tried everything I could to blow the image up to get a bigger, better resolution, but have failed miserably. Have you had any better luck?

Thanks for your help, Shan

Well, I'm working with Dietmar's i.d. of the man as High Pipe, who, to me, is the man with the caped coat addressing the 'Grand Council' in the post above. I don't think that the man with the scarf is Man Afraid. It wouldn't be the only occasion Trager and Co. misidentified someone as YMA! He looks too full-lipped when compared with other photos taken by Trager and Co. - which reminds me, I'm sure I read recently that Cross was one of the photographers whose images were used by Northwest Photo Co., Chadron so some of the famous images taken around this time are his. Could've dreamt it, of course!


The real Kicking Bear, YMA and Standing Bear, by Trager and/or associates.

Though looking at these image, it is possible, I suppose...




I see what you mean about the sunken mouth. His face seems to be intact, as it were, at this time. It does look like he's had quite a lot of teeth pulled.

On an unrelated note, Shan, this is the best I can do:

Ah... I know the one you mean, but I don't have a large copy of it either.